What upsets me is not so much that someone posted something on twitter - who cares? But that someone got fired over it. Surely that is the real issue - not so much what Adria did but that some other person decided an (esentially unsubstantiated) tweet from a third party was sufficient reason for dismissal. If nobody got fired there would be no issue here. Let's ask for a response, not from SendGrid, but from whoever…
The PyCon Incident
531–540 of 1001 posts
Re: The PyCon Incident
#532This is a rather bizarre situation. Still, I visited Sendgrid's website to learn more about them. Click on their "We are hiring" link and scrolled down. What did I find? A sexual joke. On their very own company website. See for yourself: http://i.imgur.com/uWc8P39.png And before anyone says anything, the image depicts a person photocopying their genitals. It does not show gender, but the act is quite clear. Not somet…
Re: The PyCon Incident
#533Let's be honest, political correctness culture is here to stay. The accused will be accused by the accuser who feels that they are standing up for racial/gender/sexual orientation equality. Then, there'll be a backlash against affirmative action/preferential treatment for those who feel that they are not privileged and have been reverse-discriminated. Publicly shaming this black woman is like condemning a person with…
This sounds like a frightening world. Eh, freedom in America has had a good run.
Re: The PyCon Incident
#534Earlier quoted context omitted.
But you really shouldn't have to make politically incorrect jokes and references to make yourself fit in because of your gender. People who feel like they can't be themselves around you because of your gender have other hangups that are unrelated to you. If they truly believe that they can't joke around women, that's a failing of social understanding. It doesn't really matter if the joke was lewd or offensive or if y…
whats your point? I wouldn't have to make politically incorrect jokes and references to make myself fit in if there wasn't a fear of offending me and losing their job put there by other women who call foul at the slightest indecency.... And that's the problem,anyone can be offended by anything. while i don't' find the jokes in question personally offensive, there are some things i do that no one could ever guess i wo…
That aside, this
> I wouldn't have to make politically incorrect jokes and references to make myself fit in if there wasn't a fear of offending me and losing their job put there by other women who call foul at the slightest indecency....
is an irrelevant conclusion to take from this event. You don't have to speak for your entire sex by being politically incorrect just to show you're not "one of those" women or that women aren't all the same. To everyone whose mind isn't stuck in the 30s, that should be pretty obvious.
Also, your argument seems to imply that she should have taken the same action you would've taken, but that is kind of unrelated. She did whatever she felt was right to do at the time because of other concerns. Using phrases like "freak out and make a scene" portray her as this basketcase who has no control over herself, but that isn't exactly what happened. What you would do and what she did are unrelated, because you are two different people with different values. Yet, I'm sure people would love to leverage your argument against hers because you are both women. That just stinks of sexism.
Re: The PyCon Incident
#535There goes the saying, "innocent until found guilty". So if I were a popular tech individual who decided to tweet about something I may misheard in a bad way, I can actually get someone fired. The company who fired the guys should have done some investigation instead of basing it off tweets. This is ridiculous; this is the number one reason why I never went back to PyCon.
Re: The PyCon Incident
#536Earlier quoted context omitted.
Indeed, I am really puzzled as to why these "jokes" are supposed to be offensive to women. They might be offensive to people raised in some cultures / subcultures, and they don't sound like they're great jokes in any culture, but nobody ever told me about the meeting where women decided knob jokes were offensive. In fact a female friend texted me one about an hour ago.
As assessments of body parts the men's behavior and the Sendgrid developer evangelists's tweets are more offensive to men who are being objectified based on their dongles. The lesser issue still exists, though, of creating a 'sexual environment' where mentions of sex may make people who believe others may wish to engage them in sexual relations may feel threatened.
Re: The PyCon Incident
#537Earlier quoted context omitted.
Try using google: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=single+gender+teams+perf... I grabbed a couple citations while I was there because I was also curious: * http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/1468-0432.00129/a... - "Although generalizations from student-based studies to the workplace is problematic, the results indicate that groups may be more effective when women outnumber or equal men, especially in compl…
From the first paper: >This study has four limitations. First, the sample comprised students only working within fictitious enterprises in hypothetical industries and, as such, may not represent what actually happens in reality. >Second, the sample size was smaller than ideal. >Third, ethnic minorities were not identified among group members ... non-European individuals were present, but comprised less than 10% of th…
> We all know that you can't provide any evidence to back this up. What is your agenda? Why do you think we are stupid?
The assertion you made is that there was no evidence to support pencilcode's assertion that gender diverse teams perform better. I believe this assertion is false, the top results of a cursory search that I made out of curiosity provided evidence which supported pencilcode's position.
However, I of course agree that two papers is hardly conclusive, so feel free to cite more studies if you want to start wading into the pool of evidence available to us on this topic.
Re: The PyCon Incident
#538Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's a sane move if you want to discourage the culture that Adria is encouraging. Certainly her employers don't deserve any blame, though.
What culture is that? * Calling people out who violate PyCon's code of conduct? * Following this up by going to PyCon and getting it resolved? ( http://pycon.blogspot.com/2013/03/pycon-response-to-inapprop... ) Are we really arguing that people should keep silent when things like this happen? When a rule is violated? That they should only respond after it's taken place? Is that what people are really asking for?
Re: The PyCon Incident
#539Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Somebody they sent to a conference, who was representing their company there, went on a personal vendetta against somebody and got them fired. I went back and looked at Adria's comment (conveniently not quoted), and you're completely misrepresenting the situation. She didn't have a vendetta, she didn't try to get them fired. She simply asked that someone talk to them about the language which made her uncomfortable.…
And then she took their picture and posted it on Twitter.
Re: The PyCon Incident
#540Earlier quoted context omitted.
Freedom of speech (in the United States, according to the Constitution and historical rulings of the Supreme Court) is freedom from government intervention in political and artistic speech, not permission to make lewd jokes and be free of private or personal consequences.
One country doesn't define freedom of speech.