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Diamonds Are Bullshit

blog.priceonomics.com

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Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#531

Post by okamiueru »

gfodor wrote: post #497

Ah, another thread full of bitter men who do not want to buy a diamond because they are "worthless." I bought the girl a diamond because she wanted a diamond. It makes her happy. She says it makes her smile every day. That's "worthless", huh? If that is worthless then find me something that makes her so happy that isn't worthless and I would have bought that instead. But there is no such thing, for her. For some girl…

Alright, I'll bite.

See, when you say you see a "thread full of bitter men", I cant help but feel you are expressing some kind of bitterness yourself. At least, I don't share your dismissive feelings towards the concept that a ring should symbolize more than monetize (yeah, strawman right back at'ya :) ). You know... when something is _really_ important, yet no argument is provided to back it up. "Makes her smile", is a positive side-effect, yet not a rational reason that can counter what is bad about diamonds. The whole notion that affection and devotion should be demonstrated through financial sacrifice (and I don't use sacrifice in the terms of "something given up or lost", but "destruction or surrender of something for the sake of [deity]") is a cultural irrationality that you seem to have a very positive look on, and good for you!

If someone looks at his/her ring, and feels negative emotion because this ring, which is meant to symbolize the "let's share a life together" between two people, is only made of plain gold, and not something which was more expensive to obtain... It's a good thing for me that I find this cultural irrationality an unattractive red flag.

Have a nice day.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#532

Post by PeterisP »

overgryphon wrote: post #288
dclowd9901 wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diamonds aren't popular because they have any real value. No one actually believes they do. They cost a lot and are an easily worn, thus making them perfect for their favorite hobby: making other women feel inadequate. Even women who are positively liberal on such matters are drawn to the idea of forcing their husbands to show such monetary devotion. The issue here isn't the scarcity of diamonds. It's the scarcity if…

What makes you think women, as a whole entire gender of people, enjoy making other people feel inadequate? Perhaps if she's going to wear a ring for the rest of her life, she wants it to be a nice ring that is color neutral. Perhaps she doesn't want something cheap and easily replaceable acting as a symbol for your marriage.

It's relevant not simply to "an entire gender", but to the whole world of people, primates and most other animals.

It's because social status by definition is a zero-sum game. For status symbols, the absolute value is irrelevant; but what matters is the value relative to your peers.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#534

Post by triplesec »

jaggederest wrote: post #513
triplesec wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Up to a point. The correlation is not good, and I've had some horredous expensive wines, but for a weak-medium price-quality correlation I'd say the cut off is more like $50 or so, after which it gets a lot weaker! This is because there are better wines, but you can't tell the nuances until you hone your palate... practise a lot! It's just as a professional skier gets more use out of the nuances of his or her skis fo…

No, I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but they used trained wine experts. No statistically valid correlation between price and quality.

jag - see above reply. So the markets are such that some wines are heavily underpriced and others overpriced, often because of extrinsic social variables! Absolutely! I'd be very surprised if the correlation was zero, however! Show me the data!

I'm interested to see how they did it. I'm open to new data and changing my mind (I have done several times already, and used to be insufferable!) but I want to see several studies with good method.

I see you're not denying that more expensive wine can taste better, and I misread this at first to think that you were denying any possible objective (conventionally-agreed at least) values for "higher quality" wine and that it was all bull. You haven't said that, and so I think you're not contesting that, but just noting the market's strangeness, that there is no relation in price and a wine's agreed quality.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#535

Post by lxwang »

sjtrny wrote: post #495
toast76 wrote: post #110

Trying to argue against engagement rings is like arguing against internet censorship. Your opinion is tainted before you open your mouth because the only people who could possibly oppose such things are cheap bastards or pedophiles, respectively. If you refuse to buy a diamond, it's because you're cheap or don't love "her" enough. No amount of hand waving or sensible logic will make up for the fact that you'll just l…

If your other half says that it's because you don't love them enough you need to get a new partner who doesn't behave like a 10 year old.

Nice theory, but you don't want to marry someone who doesn't behave like a 10 year old, you want to marry the person you love.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#537

Post by eric_bullington »

sharkweek wrote: post #453
boyter wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The social status is changing I think. I commented on this in some other Diamond discussion thread but I have noticed an increase in people my age group (Gen Y) having engagement/wedding rings with other stones. Purely anecdotal but it seems to be a trend in my group of friends at least. For example my wife has a Sapphire ring (yes I know Sapphires can be made at any size artificially) and so does my brothers. A clos…

Several people (including myself) in my social circle ended up going the antique route the past few years -- There's a few shops in the area that specialize in antique (read: used) jewelry. My wife really wanted something with a unique/classic flair; was able to find the perfect ring that was made in the 1920s. The fact that we were sort of able to fantasize about the back story added to the allure.

This is what we did about 10 years ago (GenX), for a similar reason (wife wanted something unique). It was really fun going around antique shops looking for a ring -- and we're not really the "antiquing" types. Something to look into if you're looking for something different, particularly if you're in a city with a large neighborhood of antique shops.

EDIT: And to avoid misrepresenting my wife, I should add it was not a diamond ring (it's a pearl). My wife worked in African before we got married and would have nothing to do with diamonds.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#538

Post by supersaver »

kyrra wrote: post #132

(person I know) worked for GE (General Electric) on their industrial diamond production process back in the 90's, and I got to hear lots of fun stories from this. Diamonds that are man-made[1] are stronger (fewer imperfections) than those that are mined from the earth. Because of this, industrial diamonds tend to be man-made. (for reference, industrial diamonds when cutting hard materials, such as metals). While work…

Can I get one of these industrial diamonds in a ring?

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#539

Post by aneth4 »

larrys wrote: post #378
rayiner wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't qualify (3), which is a very important one. I've got a daughter. She's only 4 months old, but I've had occasion to think a bit about this. I would not want her to marry someone who wasn't willing to give her a ring? Why? Reasons (1) and (2) I mentioned, sure, but also reason (3). It is the mark of a sensible man that he cares what other people think about him. People who buck social conventions sometimes b…

"It is the mark of a sensible man that he cares what other people think about him." Agree with you (and my daughter is much much older). I would be totally wary of a man that decided in lieu of buying a ring for my daughter to make a donation to a charity. The ring is a gift for the woman. In the event of a divorce the woman typically gets to keep the ring it's an asset and does have value despite all the drivel of t…

I would say it's the mark of a sensible man who understands how to be aware, influence, and the effect of what other people think of him, but does not actually care.

Someone who actually cares what someone thinks of him based on whether he bought an overpriced hunk of carbon is what sensible call a "deuschebag."

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#540

Post by dylangs1030 »

cookiecaper wrote: post #524
dylangs1030 wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeking financial security != gold digging. It's not sexist or derogatory. Financial security and status are evolutionary concepts that predate the diamond district. Diamonds are just one manifestation of a deeper, hardwired instinct to seek fit and capable mates. This isn't a cynical concept, it's backed by studies of the entire animal kingdom, not just humans.

I don't know that anything "financial" qualifies as an evolutionary concept.

Financial no, because that's one derivation of a greater desire - to find a fit mate.

Fitness indicators change and trend between civilizations. Right now, with the predominance of capitalism, having a lot of "stuff" or access and ability to acquire "stuff" means you're a worthy sexual partner.

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