Live data from Hacker News

Diamonds Are Bullshit

blog.priceonomics.com

491–500 of 774 posts

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Women can't use another proxy to signal financial security, like the dollar amount in a bank account, or a house down-payment, or a secure job? Women can't talk for themselves? Do women still want a man who is financially secure? What about independent women? How many women have posted in this thread (compared to HN's overall male-female posting ratio)?

> Do women still want a man who is financially secure? What about independent women? Most of my female friends are professionals (graduate degrees, well-paying jobs, etc). The vast majority of them (literally 90%+) want a man who is financially secure. Part of it is attraction, but it's also part pragmatic. Most women will have kids at some point in their lives (the %-age of women who remain childless by 45 is actual…

>>Part of it is attraction, but it's also part pragmatic.

Understandable, Why.. Continue reading..

>>Women are still the ones that, disproportionately, compromise their careers to take care of children.

Sorry. women 'want' to compromise their careers and take care of the kids. I'm not saying raising kids isn't tough.

But most men I know will happily stay back at home and take care of the kids, if the their wives would take up all the financial problems/responsibilities of the home.

'Compared'(and compared to raising kids) what you have to do make the financial ends meet. I would say most women will pick raising kids. That's more or less is a no brainer.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#492
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so they just leave De Beers to run around gouging consumers That's kind of missing the point. If diamonds were 5 bucks a piece, women would no longer be interested in receiving rings bejeweled by them. A woman wants a man who is financially secure. If you can't afford a shiny rock, you can't afford what's coming after it either, so there's no point.

It doesn't have anything to do with financial security. Look, if your man is spending three months worth of salary on a piece of shiny rock, he is exercising poor financial judgment and that is a signal against future financial security. Women want diamonds not because of any symbolic reasons ("Diamonds are forever!") but because of reasons that are much more practical: they want to be able to show off the diamonds t…

Well but don't you say it yourself that the diamond is a kind of "showy waste"* to show that they are able to command a fiancé/husband of their own that is able to provide? That is a symbolic reason no?

The Mating Mind, Geoffrey Miller

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#493
post #166
post #132

(person I know) worked for GE (General Electric) on their industrial diamond production process back in the 90's, and I got to hear lots of fun stories from this. Diamonds that are man-made[1] are stronger (fewer imperfections) than those that are mined from the earth. Because of this, industrial diamonds tend to be man-made. (for reference, industrial diamonds when cutting hard materials, such as metals). While work…

> so they just leave De Beers to run around gouging consumers That's kind of missing the point. If diamonds were 5 bucks a piece, women would no longer be interested in receiving rings bejeweled by them. A woman wants a man who is financially secure. If you can't afford a shiny rock, you can't afford what's coming after it either, so there's no point.

Wouldn't it make more sense (and be easier - more supply) if a woman "bought" a man for future earning potential, i.e. connections, skills, ambitions, ...?

It's a great test for gold-diggers, though.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wine. Wine prices are based mostly on arbitrary criteria, not on actual quality. If you blind taste test wines, it looks like there's nearly no correlation between price and quality above $5-$10 a bottle.

Up to a point. The correlation is not good, and I've had some horredous expensive wines, but for a weak-medium price-quality correlation I'd say the cut off is more like $50 or so, after which it gets a lot weaker! This is because there are better wines, but you can't tell the nuances until you hone your palate... practise a lot! It's just as a professional skier gets more use out of the nuances of his or her skis fo…

> This is because there are better wines, but you can't tell the nuances until you hone your palate... practice a lot!

How do you know that after "honing your palate" you you'll calibrate your sense of taste to actual quality of wine, rather than to whatever the difference is between more and less expensive ones? People can learn to see any kind of patterns if they try hard enough, but that doesn't mean those patterns are in any way useful or relevant.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#495

Trying to argue against engagement rings is like arguing against internet censorship. Your opinion is tainted before you open your mouth because the only people who could possibly oppose such things are cheap bastards or pedophiles, respectively. If you refuse to buy a diamond, it's because you're cheap or don't love "her" enough. No amount of hand waving or sensible logic will make up for the fact that you'll just l…

If your other half says that it's because you don't love them enough you need to get a new partner who doesn't behave like a 10 year old.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#496
post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't have anything to do with financial security. Look, if your man is spending three months worth of salary on a piece of shiny rock, he is exercising poor financial judgment and that is a signal against future financial security. Women want diamonds not because of any symbolic reasons ("Diamonds are forever!") but because of reasons that are much more practical: they want to be able to show off the diamonds t…

> This is why many women will accept, at the rational level, that diamonds are horrible and stupid and even evil (since they fuel all kinds of violence in Africa, where they are mined). But most of them will not be able to bring themselves to accept substitutes such as sapphires, rubies, or emeralds. Because that would make their female friends think that the guy does not value them as much (or that they weren't able…

Wanting the respect of others in your peer group is sad now?

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#497
Ah, another thread full of bitter men who do not want to buy a diamond because they are "worthless."

I bought the girl a diamond because she wanted a diamond. It makes her happy. She says it makes her smile every day. That's "worthless", huh? If that is worthless then find me something that makes her so happy that isn't worthless and I would have bought that instead. But there is no such thing, for her. For some girls, yes, they do not want diamonds. (But I assure you, there is something they want that you will label as "irrational" and "worthless", too.) But many girls do, and men buy them for them not because they are stupid and irrational but because they are in love and because it will make the person they love happy. Life is too short to view every dollar spent as an investment and every purchase justifiable onto some balance sheet or long-term plan based upon prudent thinking. What do we work for, after all, than to earn the ability to do what we want with our money? And what better way to use that money than to make those we love happy?

The bottom line is diamond rings and all that nonsense will continue to be a thing as long as it makes girls happy to have one. It could be it makes them happy because it reminds them of their husband's commitment. It could be because it reminds them of the time in their lives of their engagement. It could be because it is just shiny and nice to look at. It could be because it might be the nicest thing they own and the biggest sacrifice a person ever made, just to make them happy. According to this thread, the only reason a girl wants a diamond is because she is a selfish person who wants to wave it around her friends and show she is better than them. That's a very sad perspective and shows a lack of understanding.

If you want to figure out how to get diamonds to go away you need to figure out something that will have the same effect on women that diamonds do, or you need to somehow convince millions of women to no longer feel the way they do about diamond rings and the meaning behind them. Getting up and yelling about it being a poor investment and irrational and all makes it fairly clear you do not understand why women are so obsessed with diamonds in the first place.

The only reason the focus is on diamonds is because of the high price tag, not because there is some inherent moral argument being made about the nature of purchasing things irrationally because you simply want to do something nice for someone you love. I'm sure you have plenty of things you want that you don't need, but somehow you are able to compartmentalize them because they are a) not as expensive as a diamond or b) serve some "function" beyond being a shiny rock. Good for you. But really, if you want to argue about ethics and morals in consumer choices, the price tag a person pays relative to the "intrinsic value" of the object so desired should not be a part of the equation. To me, I don't give a damn what the "intrinsic value" of a diamond is on the market, I give a damn what the "intrinsic value" of a diamond (specifically the diamond I purchased) is to the person I gave it to. And in my case you will hardly find a larger gap between price and intrinsic value (in my favor) than probably anything else I've purchased.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#498
post #119

I can imagine any number of men saying "How ridiculous that I have to buy a diamond!" but without extending that thought process to marriage itself. In that sense, buying a diamond is like graduating from college -- you've demonstrated a willingness to engage in possibly irrational behavior in furtherance of a widely revered symbol. This is not to say that college has no value, only that its value is often much less…

We do extend the same thought process to marriage, although not enough of us as shown by some of the comments in this thread.

On a related note: I don't want gay marriage. I want governments to stop handing out "you are in a relationship certificates" to EVERYONE.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#499

DeBeers today controls 35% of the diamonds. They are not big enough any more to control and manipulate diamond prices - as they used to before. Diamond prices are still high, and rising because of the demand. The demand in countries like India and China is rising. Diamonds and jewelry is the modern dowry. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowry Its inherent value is that it shows people that the family is well to do. Thin…

>>Diamonds and jewelry is the modern dowry

Don't know if you are an India. In India jewellery is the most ancient form of dowry.

Modern dowry is more like Cars, Flats etc.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#500
post #497

Ah, another thread full of bitter men who do not want to buy a diamond because they are "worthless." I bought the girl a diamond because she wanted a diamond. It makes her happy. She says it makes her smile every day. That's "worthless", huh? If that is worthless then find me something that makes her so happy that isn't worthless and I would have bought that instead. But there is no such thing, for her. For some girl…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN