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Honda is killing its EVs

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Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#531

Post by somerandomqaguy »

slg wrote: post #346
rkagerer wrote: post #308

Honda is setting itself up for failure on the second disruption sweeping the automotive industry: the software-defined vehicle (SDV), which has core capabilities that can be upgraded and improved over time. No thank you. Not sure why the author frames this as a good thing. They've been bamboozled by the automakers and have got it backwards - you're buying a vehicle that already has the capabilities, but are disabled,…

>you're buying a vehicle that already has the capabilities, but are disabled, then paying rent (or a fee) to turn them on. This is very much not what "software-defined vehicle" means which itself is very much not the same thing as EVs. It's possible to criticize the explotative business practices you mentioned (or bad UI practices like moving everything to a touchscreen instead of physical buttons) without linking th…

>a societal level, cars that can automatically fix a "recall" with an over-the-air update are generally better than recalls that will wait to get fixed until an owner schedules an appointment to have the car serviced

Maybe? At least in my experience, once the cost of patching buggy software goes down, it typically means that the people become more willing to ship software with more bugs with a fix it later attitude.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#532

Post by cpach »

direwolf20 wrote: post #444
ggm-at-algebras wrote: post #349

In Shenzhen for a tech meeting. The streetscape is quieter, despite high traffic levels and I hear not only MORE birdsong, but the birds do more complex songlines. The air is clean. For sure some of this is because it's a coastal city and has fresh sea breezes, but I've been in other Chinese coastal cities in times past and the air was significantly less clean. There are social upsides for an almost-all-EV city. This…

[flagged]

Software. Music.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#533

Post by hedora »

linkregister wrote: post #233
boringg wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two points. 1. Infra will need to upgrade in order to handle heavy charging in neighborhoods with wholesale change in the fleet. It would change our electrical use model considerably in terms of times of use -- and we would be adding all the energy used from gas powered cars to the electrical grid - which is somewhat significant. 2. While you are correct technically -- I think what I am implying is older cars (ICE) w…

It's a myth that EV charging requires an upgrade to a 100 amp connection. Scheduling charging to times when you're not using appliances will still result in a charged vehicle by morning. The Youtube channel Technology Connections has an interesting video where it describes a successful transition to a fully-electric house while remaining on a 50 amp electrical connection. (it requires a smart circuit breaker)

We have a F-150 lightning, and charge it on a 12A, 120V charger. It’s fine for 6-10 trips a week. If I commuted in it to an office without a charger it wouldn’t be fine, but a smaller commuter car would be. (The truck gets 2.5 miles/kWh, commuter cars are at 4-5).

I’m sure we are outliers, but still.

Put another way: growing up with incandescent bulbs, I remember light switches that would turn on 6-8 lamp track lights. That’s half the current our EV charger draws. We had a space heater that drew more than our EV charger currently does.

Houses and neighborhoods are still built with electrical systems provisioned for pre-LED, pre-induction/heatpump workloads. They certainly have enough slack for everyone to plug in a level one or two charger simultaneously.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#534

Post by rtpg »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #218
slfnflctd wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Observers and technologists have also consistently failed to appreciate the continuing value proposition of hybrids, and Toyota makes some of the best, top selling models.

My biggest peeve with hybrids is that it gives consumers the mistaken impression that they're going to have to replace the batteries in their EV. Most hybrids aren't liquid-cooled (although that is changing), and the smaller size means that a hybrid puts a lot more cycles per mile on the battery than an EV does. Which in practice means that a hybrid battery lasts about 100,000 miles whereas an EV lasts about 250,000…

...are there 300k mile Priuses out on the road and being used?

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#535

Post by eichin »

jcranmer wrote: post #315
Slow_Hand wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a tangential question. Do you find that snow banks near roads are appreciably less black and disgusting now that there are fewer ICE vehicles on the road? Growing up in America I have memories of our roadside snowbanks becoming black and saturated by vehicle exhaust and it always felt so gross to me. The back half of winter was characterized by blackened, salt-saturated puddles and banks. I wonder if the preva…

> The back half of winter was characterized by blackened, salt-saturated puddles and banks. I wonder if the prevalence of EVs has made things less dirty in the winter. The dominant cause of that is probably brake and tire particulate matter, not car exhaust. And EVs make tire pollution go up (because they're heavier) and brake pollution... I'm not sure if the weight effect there is counteracted by the decreased amoun…

On my Polestar 2, I was surprised how in actual use, friction braking was basically zero - to the point where when you start a trip the brakes are used for a few seconds to make sure they're still working (and scrub them a bit.) In actual driving - without trying particularly on my part - it's just always regen.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#536

Post by kjkjadksj »

spookybones wrote: post #393
ggm-at-algebras wrote: post #349

In Shenzhen for a tech meeting. The streetscape is quieter, despite high traffic levels and I hear not only MORE birdsong, but the birds do more complex songlines. The air is clean. For sure some of this is because it's a coastal city and has fresh sea breezes, but I've been in other Chinese coastal cities in times past and the air was significantly less clean. There are social upsides for an almost-all-EV city. This…

Mexico City needs this badly. It would be beautiful if it wasn't for the smog and noise of traffic.

Inversion layer there will still trap ev particulate unfortunately

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#537

Post by hedora »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #119
boringg wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting but North America has different needs for vehicles. Long time before our electrical systems to be able to compensate for that kind of whole sale change. Will be at least 20 years if it ever happens. I would also say that any ICE vehicle that has 0 subscription models, upgradable firmware, tracking software will probably have a value premium to it in the not distant future. FWIW downvoters - I have a PHEV…

> Will be at least 20 years if it ever happens. And if 100% of EV's sold this year were electric, it would take ~24 years for basically all of the vehicles on the road were electric. (The average age of registered cars in the US is 12 years old). Estimates are that a 100% EV fleet would increase electricity demand by 20%. So that's Approximately how much demand increases due to increasing A/C usage in the US. And a l…

So, EVs would reduce electricity usage in the long term (by eliminating the growth in demand from air conditioning).

On top of that, things like balcony and rooftop solar are much more economically attractive if you have a lot of load at your house, so people that buy EVs are likely to also self-generate a lot of electricity.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#538

Post by defrost »

rtpg wrote: post #534
bryanlarsen wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My biggest peeve with hybrids is that it gives consumers the mistaken impression that they're going to have to replace the batteries in their EV. Most hybrids aren't liquid-cooled (although that is changing), and the smaller size means that a hybrid puts a lot more cycles per mile on the battery than an EV does. Which in practice means that a hybrid battery lasts about 100,000 miles whereas an EV lasts about 250,000…

...are there 300k mile Priuses out on the road and being used?

The indications from several articles is Yes.

eg, from one:

  We clarified that the standard mileage for the Toyota Prius Prime is up to 500,000 miles, but we would place the high mileage point for the car at around 300,000 miles. Once the vehicle passes this point in its lifespan, it’s far more likely to experience issues that cost ample money to keep in excellent condition.
How Long Do Toyota Prius Primes Last? The Scoop on Vehicle Lifespan (2024) https://www.copilotsearch.com/posts/how-long-do-toyota-prius...

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#539

Post by kjkjadksj »

bojan wrote: post #241
jacquesm wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My daily driver is approaching the ripe old age of 30, my main reason is a lack of software.

Are you doing the maintenance yourself? I guess at some point the yearly maintenance costs exceed the value of the car itself.

That would not be the case amortized I expect. You can sell virtually any car for $5k as a floor price I’d say. Most yearly maintenance amounts to changing oil. Maybe tires every four years. Every 5-10 years maybe a bigger couple hundred dollar job. That has been about my experience owning used cars. But still well below $5k/yr.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#540

Post by bryanlarsen »

rtpg wrote: post #534
bryanlarsen wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My biggest peeve with hybrids is that it gives consumers the mistaken impression that they're going to have to replace the batteries in their EV. Most hybrids aren't liquid-cooled (although that is changing), and the smaller size means that a hybrid puts a lot more cycles per mile on the battery than an EV does. Which in practice means that a hybrid battery lasts about 100,000 miles whereas an EV lasts about 250,000…

...are there 300k mile Priuses out on the road and being used?

I've been in several Prius taxis with more than 300K on the odometer.
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