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Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

reuters.com

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Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#531

Post by coffeebeqn »

amluto wrote: post #426
pcthrowaway wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK since no one else has said it yet, "according to a source familiar with the details"[1] (I know) Trump has basically told Netanyahu to agree to the ceasefire including the return of hostages. Then if they decide to break the ceasefire and go back to relentless bombings, Trump will still continue to support them. So it could be a tactic to get Hamas to release whatever hostages are still alive, then get right back…

Would there really be much support within Israel to continue the war if all the hostages were already released?

What are their goals at this point? Looks to me as an outsider like they’ve had multiple wins and should take that. Hezbollah, Syria, successful strike on Irans missile facilities, Gaza is a pile of rubble.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#532

Post by beagle3 »

r0p3 wrote: post #506
nsoonhui wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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I don't think it's accurate to say they "left the place some 20 years ago" since they maintained a strict blockade on what could go in and out. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip

It obviously wasn’t so strict since the Palestinians were still able to send thousands of rockets.

Gaza also has a border with Egypt, which Israel doesn’t control. For their own reasons, the Egyptians also blockade Gaza - although they did let in all the explosives and weapons that were used against Israel.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#533

Post by colordrops »

KikoHeit wrote: post #517
hedora wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you proposing the deal could be made more fair? Keep in mind: Israel killed 100x more civilians than Palestine during this conflict, and more damage was done to Gaza than any European city during wwii. 90% of the population is displaced. 10% are casualties. Israel intentionally blew up all the civil infrastructure (hospitals, doctors, engineers) first. There are > 17,000 children that have no adults to care f…

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First, no concrete evidence was ever presented that anyone was raped or babies burned. Even Israel admitted no babies were burned. These were lies to dehumanize Palestinians and justify the atrocities committed against them.

Second, history didn't start on October 7th. Tens of thousands of Palestinians have been killed before Oct 7, including hundreds at a peace protest just a few years before. And Israel had 5000 hostages of their own on Oct 6th. The year before October 7th was one of the most deadly for Palestinians in history.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#534

Post by colechristensen »

bawolff wrote: post #521
Cyph0n wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhh what are you talking about? Egypt & Jordan signed peace treaties last century. And did you somehow miss out on the (still ongoing) Abraham Accords? It’s in fact the complete opposite: Arab rulers and kings want their people to forget about Palestine .

I think you could argue that the political reality has changed a lot over the last 50 years. Having Israel & Palestine fighting was much more useful to surrounding arab states in the early cold war than it is now. In modern times it is very useful to Iran but not so much US-aligned Arab states who want the trade benefits and are allied with the same people Israel is allied with.

Internationally, a certain amount of friendliness towards the US is beneficial to Arab states aligned or not, but internally, appeasing the "death to America/Israel" portions of the population which are quite large is both necessary and often advantageous to encourage. Having an enemy brings people together, and a wise Machiavellian prince will take every advantage of this.

Arab leaders who don't strike this balance correctly will find themselves deposed by their own people or a Western coalition trying to bring "freedom".

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#535

Post by JumpCrisscross »

mysecretaccount wrote: post #524
tptacek wrote: post #350

Hamas was offered a ceasefire under exactly the same terms in May, and refused it. Since then: * Ismail Haniyeh, the leader of the Hamas political wing, was killed in Tehran * Yahyah Sinwar, the leader of the Al-Qassam Brigades, was killed in Gaza * Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Lebanese Hezbollah, was killed in Beirut * Hashem Safieddine, Nasrallah's successor, was killed a week later * Large swathes of Hezbollah'…

I suppose if we are to digress to the land of "shoulds", Israel should not have decided to delete tens of thousands of Gazan children in the interim. Even if we grant that Israel offered this ceasefire deal in good faith in May, a bungled deal by Qatar/Egypt/Hamas does nothing to justify the ethnic cleansing they conducted in 2024.

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Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#536

Post by slt2021 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #530
slt2021 wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the difference between terrorists and freedom fighters is temporal. Yesterday they were called terrorists by the mainstream, tomorrow when they win they will be hailed as heroes and freedom fighters. the zionists were also called terrorists by the UK in the beginning, especially when they bombed king david hotel

> the difference between terrorists and freedom fighters is temporal No, it isn’t. Very few revolutions ( i.e power inversions) have succeeded by indiscriminately killing the dominant side’s civilians. That frequency, moreover, goes down over time.

yes it is.

before oct7 there was a somewhat broad consensus that Hamas are bad and are terrorists.

nowadays however, Hamas are hailed as resistance and freedom fighters. Only jewish hasbara still calls them terrorists, everyone else is sympathetic to Hamas, even Donald Trump, given his zionist position

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#537

Post by klipt »

malandrew wrote: post #507
robertoandred wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going to pretend that Jews haven’t lived there for thousands and thousands of years, before the Arabs arrived?

In 1872, less than 4% of Palestine was Jewish. It was 17% in 1931. 33% in 1948 when Israel was formed. The vast vast majority of Jews in Israel now are Ashkenazi. Ashkenazis are from Khazaria and converted to Judaism between 740 and 920 AD. Even from this population, there is a bottleneck around 600 to 800 years ago where the population was down to 350 individuals [1]. By and large very very few Jews in Palestine/Isr…

> The vast vast majority of Jews in Israel now are Ashkenazi

Wrong, Mizrahi are the majority.

> Ashkenazis are from Khazaria

I don't know hope you did it, but wrong again, DNA studies show Ashkenazim have a large Canaanite DNA component. The other part is largely Italian due to admixture within the Roman Empire which forcibly annexed Judea.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#538

Post by JumpCrisscross »

slt2021 wrote: post #536
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the difference between terrorists and freedom fighters is temporal No, it isn’t. Very few revolutions ( i.e power inversions) have succeeded by indiscriminately killing the dominant side’s civilians. That frequency, moreover, goes down over time.

yes it is. before oct7 there was a somewhat broad consensus that Hamas are bad and are terrorists. nowadays however, Hamas are hailed as resistance and freedom fighters. Only jewish hasbara still calls them terrorists, everyone else is sympathetic to Hamas, even Donald Trump, given his zionist position

> Hamas are hailed as resistance and freedom fighters. Only jewish hasbara still calls them terrorists, everyone else is sympathetic

No. About 20% of Americans support Hamas; 4% the October 7th attack [1]. It’s an extreme minority.

People are sympathetic to Palestinians. Not Hamas. The best way for the foreign pro-Palestinian movement to fuck this up for Palestine is to falsely equate Palestinians with Hamas.

Going back to the top point: Hamas hasn’t succeeded. Gaza’s occupation looks like it will be far more draconian than it was a few years ago, with the strip separated by security cordons all controlled by Israel.

> everyone else is sympathetic to Hamas, even Donald Trump

Trump's peace plan [2] is anathema to everything Hamas fought for. All the way to recognising anexations of currently-Palestinian territory.

[1] https://www.pewresearch.org/2024/03/21/majority-in-u-s-say-i...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_peace_plan#Key_concepts_...

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#539

Post by rastignack »

slt2021 wrote: post #536
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the difference between terrorists and freedom fighters is temporal No, it isn’t. Very few revolutions ( i.e power inversions) have succeeded by indiscriminately killing the dominant side’s civilians. That frequency, moreover, goes down over time.

yes it is. before oct7 there was a somewhat broad consensus that Hamas are bad and are terrorists. nowadays however, Hamas are hailed as resistance and freedom fighters. Only jewish hasbara still calls them terrorists, everyone else is sympathetic to Hamas, even Donald Trump, given his zionist position

You don’t resist by filming yourself slaughtering children under captagon. Please see what French resistance was. Hamas and its apologetics are terrorists. And barbarians

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#540

Post by nsoonhui »

r0p3 wrote: post #506
nsoonhui wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I don't think it's accurate to say they "left the place some 20 years ago" since they maintained a strict blockade on what could go in and out. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip

You confuse the cause and effect, the blockade was there because Hamas fired rocket at Israel after coming to power via election.

Also Egypt blocked their side also, so I'm not sure what's the point you are making, beyond just Israel bashing.

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