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Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

reuters.com

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Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#421

Post by colechristensen »

ashoeafoot wrote: post #363
xg15 wrote: post #21

Everything else aside, this is an absolutely fantastic development and I really hope the ceasefire holds and all hostages are released. I just fear this will cause western media and politicians to and declare the crisis to be over (after it had began on Oct. 7, of course absolutely out of the blue and without any context...) and go back to pretending everything is back to normal. Never mind that Gaza is still in ruin…

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One of the major problems is that across the Arab world it is politically useful for internal politics for there not to be peace between Israel and Palestine. It is a very “good” issue for politicians/kings to have an enemy, a struggle for their peoples to be passionate about. Everything that’s being done by the Arab neighbor governments is calculated for their own political benefit. They don’t want peace or a solution because that would deprive them of something that keeps them in power.

So those who would be terrorists are funded and encouraged, the fight is promoted, and the Palestinian people are manipulated into greater belligerency instead of a peaceful equitable resolution.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#422

Post by tptacek »

kevingadd wrote: post #419
tptacek wrote: post #350

Hamas was offered a ceasefire under exactly the same terms in May, and refused it. Since then: * Ismail Haniyeh, the leader of the Hamas political wing, was killed in Tehran * Yahyah Sinwar, the leader of the Al-Qassam Brigades, was killed in Gaza * Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Lebanese Hezbollah, was killed in Beirut * Hashem Safieddine, Nasrallah's successor, was killed a week later * Large swathes of Hezbollah'…

Do you think the bombing would have stopped if they took the deal, based on how Israel has historically operated during "ceasefires"? Just curious. I do think they should have taken the deal.

I think that's a hopeless discussion to have on HN, but I think it's possible to have a clear-eyed and objective take on what Hamas should have done back in May, because we can see what happened. If the ceasefire terms had been substantially different today, the analysis would be complicated; they aren't, so it's pretty simple.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#423

Post by Yawrehto »

gravisultra wrote: post #308
robertoandred wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going to pretend that Jews haven’t lived there for thousands and thousands of years, before the Arabs arrived?

Zionism is a colonial ideology created by Europeans in the late 1800s.

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Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#424

Post by istjohn »

paxys wrote: post #391
rvz wrote: post #312

Why did it take for the incoming arrival of a new US president (Trump) and for the existing president (Biden) to LOSE to get this ceasefire deal to happen when the first proposal was rejected? [0] Of course it "needs to be take longer" since lots of money was made by government contractors in this war and why would it need to end earlier if Biden was throwing money on Israel instead of reaching a ceasefire deal much…

Here's an idea - the entire world doesn't revolve around the US presidency.

Israel is hugely dependent on the US, though.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#425

Post by gunian »

kevingadd wrote: post #414
gunian wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The playbook does seems more and more similar everyday but I'm curious why the other side hasn't figured out how to counter it

At times it seems as if the other side hasn't figured out how to do much of anything, or alternately, they've forgotten as they steadily get older and older without passing the reins of power off to younger generations.

maybe it is the latter because it always starts out well so you can't say total incompetence for the first decade or maybe two decades at most but it always invariably ends up the same way

well always maybe pushing it twice so far it's like watching a NFL team lose the super bowl because of inability to defend this one play

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#426

Post by amluto »

pcthrowaway wrote: post #148
xg15 wrote: post #21

Everything else aside, this is an absolutely fantastic development and I really hope the ceasefire holds and all hostages are released. I just fear this will cause western media and politicians to and declare the crisis to be over (after it had began on Oct. 7, of course absolutely out of the blue and without any context...) and go back to pretending everything is back to normal. Never mind that Gaza is still in ruin…

OK since no one else has said it yet, "according to a source familiar with the details"[1] (I know) Trump has basically told Netanyahu to agree to the ceasefire including the return of hostages. Then if they decide to break the ceasefire and go back to relentless bombings, Trump will still continue to support them. So it could be a tactic to get Hamas to release whatever hostages are still alive, then get right back…

Would there really be much support within Israel to continue the war if all the hostages were already released?

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#427

Post by throw310822 »

abracadaniel wrote: post #261
throw310822 wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Biden had 400 days to take those actions- coincidentally, he took them at the moment he has basically no power any more? Which is not to say I trust Trump. Afaik he's a fanatic Israel supporter. We'll have to wait and see what happens to pass any judgement on this.

You had 9 months to produce a baby, but you waited until the final day to deliver it? What a terribly mismanaged project.

Quite a sad analogy, since the outcome of Biden's inaction- no, active support, since he flooded Israel with money and weapons and ensured diplomatic cover at the UN- resulted in the killing of at least ten thousand children.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#428

Post by hmcq6 »

dismalaf wrote: post #331
gravisultra wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true at all. The current conflict isn't some thousand year old feud. It was very much caused by the deliberate provocation and importation of European settlers via Zionism. It's easy to wave our hands and say "it's so complicated!" or "they've been doing this for thousands of years!" but it's not complicated, much like apartheid South Africa, Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were not complicated. Colonialis…

This is a lot of buzzwords but no content. The background behind the current conflict goes something like this: Muslims, Christians and Jews all lived in Palestine during the Ottoman era. Jews discovered Europe was pretty hostile, Zionism was born. Many move to Palestine, buy land and settle down. The Ottomans lose WWI, lose Palestine to the British. The British Empire started fracturing, they realised they couldn't…

You completely left out the Nakba. Which you would have to to even attempt to make this point.

> The Arabs invite all the nations around them to attack the Jews with them.

I assume you're talking about the "Arab Invasion" of 1948? So, that would be after the Nakba started. In fact, Deir Yassin occured only a month before Israel was founded.

You're very obviously leaving out facts not in an attempt to be succinct but to obscure the actual history.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#429

Post by BurningFrog »

istjohn wrote: post #417
bko wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aid to Germany after World War II under the Marshall Plan totaled $14 billion ($60 billion in today’s value), averaging $272 per capita across participating nations over four years. In contrast, Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank have received $1,330 per capita since 1993, or $161 annually, more than twice the per-capita annual aid under the Marshall Plan

That's a laughable comparison. Israel has been systematically undermining the economic and political independence of the West Bank and Gaza during that timeframe. Gaza had been under siege since 2006. The Marshall Plan in contrast was a concerted effort to rebuild and integrate Germany into the European economy.

Gaza has been under siege because it kept attacking Israel.

Had Germany kept invading France 1946-1965, it would have been treated the same way. But the Germans chose another path.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#430

Post by alephnerd »

rayiner wrote: post #411
dismalaf wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a lot of buzzwords but no content. The background behind the current conflict goes something like this: Muslims, Christians and Jews all lived in Palestine during the Ottoman era. Jews discovered Europe was pretty hostile, Zionism was born. Many move to Palestine, buy land and settle down. The Ottomans lose WWI, lose Palestine to the British. The British Empire started fracturing, they realised they couldn't…

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The Ottomans definetly deserve a ton of blame, but tbf the Ottoman Empire in the 19th century was in the midst of a massive collapse of authority from the Balkans to Basra.

IMO, almost all the instability across Eurasia is because of the collapse of the Ottoman, Russian, Qajar, Mughal, and Qing Empires.

It would be like if the US, Russia, China, India, Brazil, Canada, snd Mexico all fell into a protracted collapse over 50 years at (roughly) the same time.

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