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Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

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Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#521

Post by ToucanLoucan »

imtringued wrote: post #477
mfinelli wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re: modding with MO2/vortex I had a similar problem in that installing them on linux isn't super straightforward, and then once I did get them installed when I launched the game through them like I used to do on windows the performance was abysmal. I decided to tackle the problem myself and so I wrote this: https://github.com/mfinelli/modctl . It's a mod manager that I wrote specifically for linux. It's not really re…

I know that running Vortex is a pain but I never ran into any problems once it was installed. I did this back in 2022. I don't want to discourage you, but what's wrong with helping MO2 and Vortex get ported to Linux?

MO2 works fine on Linux! It’s a bit slow to start but I found it very usable, a bit less polished than Vortex maybe but it absolutely gets the job done and I got my head around it inside of an hour.

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#522

Post by retr0rocket »

Perz1val wrote: post #467
Gigachad wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t see it happening until valve adds some kind of trusted compute environment. I’m imagining online games could have a flag which enforces secure boot, boot chain attestation, and disables multi tasking features. So while you are playing the game it becomes a single task device, but after you quit it’s fully unlocked again to do whatever you want.

You can't block multitasking, the largest multiplayers have huge crowds who play with friends and talk on discord.

[dead]

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#523

Post by flaunf221 »

SchemaLoad wrote: post #283
anonymousab wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5% would already be well within the margin of difference for separate identical clean installations of windows on the same hardware. But the issue is that it is many multiples of that, especially on the most common PC gaming hardware (Nvidia GPUs), often more than a 25% difference in framerates. Not so important at 144fps, but very important at a 60fps baseline and for genres like fighting games. A lot of people don'…

I'd guess that the difference only matters if you have the latest most expensive gear pushed to the limit. I have a 2019 RX5700 XT and one of the DDR4 ryzen 5 cpus and all of my games run flawlessly on Linux with great performance. I've long since decided that buying the latest top end hardware is just spending a lot of money to be upset by buggy drivers or not being able to get 5000 fps in a benchmark but has no rea…

> I have a 2019 RX5700 XT

So you have very old hardware, can barely play modern AAA games (if ever), and are still happy. Good for you.

But your opinion is relevant to average gamer who enjoys playing games released in current year in the same way that someone drinking instant coffee can advise on coffee beens that it's all just caffeine in the end.

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#524

Post by theshackleford »

SchemaLoad wrote: post #357
theshackleford wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all of my games run flawlessly on Linux with great performance. Your definition of great performance is not mine, but it’s fantastic to watch Linux users continue to hand wave away real issues whilst continually claiming the same or better performance across the board, which is provably false. > but has no real gains in how fun games are. It absolutely does for me. Modern displays are absolutely dogshit. I won’t pl…

This is exactly the mentality I'm talking about. People have entertained themselves for all of human history without anything nearly as sophisticated as modern displays. At some point this unchecked desire will suck all of the fun out of a hobby and leave you constantly buying the latest thing and dissatisfied at anything that isn't the highests specs possible to acquire. The game story, gameplay elements, and such h…

> At some point this unchecked desire will suck all of the fun out of a hobby

You’re projecting. I think I’ve got what I enjoy from my hobby figured out after 35+ years, but thanks anyway.

> The game story, gameplay elements, and such have become secondary to the real hobby of consumerism.

You’re projecting.

> If people could have fun gaming 20 years ago

I didn’t have to endure sample and hold slop 20 years ago, now I do. You may accept or tolerate it, I am under no requirement to do so, nor live in a world where I must accept a significant performance loss is “ok” in any circumstance.

If I wanted less performance, I’d buy something with less performance to begin with.

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#525

Post by lll-o-lll »

wtetzner wrote: post #363
dragontamer wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It never was fair to play vs computers in reaction games or skill games. IE: Quakebots and Fighting games have perfect reaction times and perfect combos. They can simply block perfectly and counter attack perfectly and never drop a combo. You act like cheating is new to video games?? -------- We never wanted bot in these games. Still don't want them today, and it's a big reason that playing on public boxes (ex: at an…

> You act like cheating is new to video games?? No, I think the point is that with AI the existing anti-cheat measures can simply be avoided by letting the AI play through the same interface as a human. Therefore anti-cheat kernel modules will no longer be useful, and will no longer be a reason to stay on Windows.

> existing anti-cheat measures can simply be avoided by letting the AI play through the same interface as a human.

Great. Now we are going to get “secure cables” for mouse and keyboard and bluetooth device attestation.

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#526

Post by theshackleford »

SchemaLoad wrote: post #404
marcus_holmes wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is similar to how buying books is a related but different hobby to reading books, or buying board games is a related but different hobby to playing board games. I know people who have hundreds of board games, thousands of dollars worth, but rarely get to actually play them (for various reasons but mostly involving children). The hobby of optimising your gaming desktop is a related but different hobby to…

Completely agreed, I think most hobbies have this perverse side aspect that is just themed consumerism. And it's so easy to get sucked in to watching youtube videos about the latest board games that you just need to buy, while the reality is you aren't even playing the ones you already have. It's much harder to step back and realise you don't need the new thing most of the time. Sure if you have a 15+ year old deskto…

It’s a bizzare assumption to make that because people happen to have different preferences or needs than you do it must be “consumerism.”

I have very specific requirements for motion clarity in games on modern displays. Older display technologies like CRTs and plasmas achieved this naturally through the way they operated. Most modern sample-and-hold displays do not.

You may not notice or be affected by that difference, which is fine. Couldn’t be more thrilled for you, however I am affected. Anything below 120Hz on a sample-and-hold display causes noticeable discomfort for me, and for a long time I stopped gaming entirely because I couldn’t work out why playing anything had seemingly overnight become so bad to play from a comfort perspective. Eventually I realised the issue started when I moved away from CRTs and plasma TVs to modern sample and hold displays.

I was only able to comfortably return to gaming by using very fast displays at 120Hz minimum, preferably 240Hz, because that gets closer to the motion quality I was used to from years of using PC CRTs. For games locked to 60Hz or below, I still prefer playing them on a CRT for exactly that reason and I own a number of CRTs for this reason.

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#527

Post by le-mark »

12_throw_away wrote: post #355
panzi wrote: post #245

Is NTSYNC used for anything else other than wine/proton?

The docs explicitly say not to: https://docs.kernel.org/next/userspace-api/ntsync.html

One wonders if it uses futex and poll under the hood, why not?

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#528

Post by Bombthecat »

HiPhish wrote: post #207
ToucanLoucan wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm looking to finally get off Windows for good. My experience with the SteamDeck started me, later I upgraded to a ROG Ally X for beefier performance but found Windows insufferable on a handheld, and installed SteamOS. I was blown away by the performance gains. A few months later I installed Kubuntu for the first time since 2013 or so, Steam shortly after, and while the desktop linux route is definitely more taxing…

Regarding mod managers, there is Limo[1] for Linux. I used it for Viva New Vegas[2], but some mods do not seem to work. I don't know if it's due to Limo or if I did something wrong though. [1] https://github.com/limo-app/limo [2] https://vivanewvegas.moddinglinked.com/

Limo, last update a year ago :(

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#529

Post by swiftcoder »

dosisking wrote: post #519
swiftcoder wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and is THE desktop OS Part of the problem seems to be that desktop OS use as a whole is cratering as more and more folks who grew up in the smartphone era enter adulthood. Outside of tech circles, I meet a lot of folks who have a phone + tablet but no actual computer...

What's a computer?

It's pretty clear from the context that I meant "general purpose PC". We don't have to get all semantic about everything

Re: Linux gaming is faster because Windows APIs are becoming Linux kernel features

#530

Post by Gareth321 »

prmoustache wrote: post #464
KennyBlanken wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Online multiplayer games keep trying to allow linux users in and keep having to lock them out because there's an instant influx of cheaters. The Nintendo Switch (which runs Linux) was a favorite of cheaters after jailbreaks came out. When anyone can compile and run their own kernel with god knows what for modifications, that makes it substantially easier for cheaters and substantially harder for anti-cheat. I don't s…

What is the problem with cheating or bots really? I feel that the solution is just to have a decent ranking/level system so that users play with other people, cheaters, bots or regular users of the same level. When I was playing mario kart with my 5y old daughter, I didn't mind she had access to helps to not run out of the road as it allowed us to play together. I don't see how different it is between say, a super sk…

People who are not naturally competitive (or who don't like competition) struggle to understand the drive. For many, competing against a computer is FAR less engaging or rewarding than against a person. Even if the person is less skilled than the computer. The human element - chance, variance in skill, emotions, etc - is very motivating for some people. The same people often like sports (which I do not). If you replaced every athlete in every competition in the Olympics with a robot, would you still find it as compelling? Some would, but many would not.
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