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Steve Wozniak used to tip from printed sheets of $2 bills

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Re: Steve Wozniak used to tip from printed sheets of $2 bills

#521

Post by doctor_eval »

O__________O wrote: post #486
doctor_eval wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not my understanding of materiality at all. If the material information he provided was true then all the other silliness is just silliness. I mean, the agent is going to search on the name, probably find a photo in a license database, and confirm the guy is who he says he is, and that is the only point of asking for ID. They are hardly strong authenticators, and no professional is going to take some random bi…

Creditability of statements made by an investigator, witnesses, suspect, etc — are obviously material to an investigation and intentionally providing fictitious documents might be a crime, basis for throwing out testimony, throwing out evidence, etc. Nothing for or against Woz, but I for sure would never intentionally provide fictitious information or document to US federal investigator if situation ever presented it…

> Why even put yourself in that position over a joke?

Well yeah, I agree with you there. I wouldn’t have done it. Not that I think it’s right, but I suppose that being an old white billionaire changes the equation somewhat.

Re: Steve Wozniak used to tip from printed sheets of $2 bills

#522

Post by LawTalkingGuy »

D13Fd wrote: post #135
tankenmate wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be convicted the prosecution needs to prove mens rea (providing a fake ID isn't strict liability), his thinking of why he chose to do this would make prosecution a fair bit harder (but obviously not impossible).

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1028 His quote reads like a confession...

Not of intending to trick them into thinking he was anyone other than himself.

The main issue is that he's not at the Department of Defense HQ presenting his Department of Defiance ID, claiming to be with the government but intending to present the joke as an excuse if it fails. In this case he wasn't trying to claim to be government to get out of anything so it's pretty obvious that it's a joke.

> 18 U.S. Code § 1028 (4)knowingly possesses an identification document (other than one issued lawfully for the use of the possessor), authentication feature, or a false identification document, with the intent such document or feature be used to defraud the United States;

He wasn't using the fake part of the ID, just his real name, and it's obvious that it wouldn't have done him any good to do so because there's no legal exemption for laser safety officers. It's pretty obvious that there was intent, this was a conscious act, but also that there was not intent to defraud.

Re: Steve Wozniak used to tip from printed sheets of $2 bills

#523

Post by intrasight »

iSnow wrote: post #83
O__________O wrote: post #42

Related US Mint page for $2 bill sheets: https://catalog.usmint.gov/paper-currency/uncut-currency/?&p... Basically he tells story in a way that average person assume he’s printing fake bills, when in reality he’s just cutting and binding sets of uncut bills into a notepad. Lying to a federal investigator though is a federal crime and one that’s frequently resulted in prison sentences. Worth noting that Jobs & Woz fir…

Why on earth do they even sell those sheets? It'll just cause confusion.

> Cause confusion

That wouldn't be problem. Them problem is that it causes visits from the Secret Service. Happened to two of my friends - and only two friends that I know of having sheets of bills.

Re: Steve Wozniak used to tip from printed sheets of $2 bills

#524

Post by quesera »

tekknik wrote: post #513
quesera wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people join the military to serve their country. But everyone in the military is indoctrinated to believe that they are serving their country. Some of them are shipped overseas. Some live in Virginia Beach. Some are physically endangered. Some sit behind a desk. There are good and noble people who choose a life of service. Some of them are in the military. Some of them are food kitchen volunteers. Not everyone i…

> Not everyone in the military is noble, or serving their country. Any more than any other federal employee. I stopped reading here. Every military member swore an oath. They have no choice of duty, but they still swore the same oath to die for their country. Anybody attempting to minimize their sacrifices should remember things like Pearl Harbor, which killed all indiscriminately. And remember that desks fit in tent…

Stripped down, this is an appeal to emotion.

It feels good and honorable to say, just like defending a member of your family. That is a goal of the mythology, and it works! It's a hell of a drug.

I don't intend to criticize the military -- combat or non.

But the psychology of it is fascinating.

Re: Steve Wozniak used to tip from printed sheets of $2 bills

#526

Post by teknico »

tengwar2 wrote: post #494
coeneedell wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No matter what country you’re in, the military is in a position of authority (except maybe Costa Rica). Generally people consider a lie to be worse if it’s a lie you can use to get power.

I disagree. I can't think of any western country where the military are in a position of authority. It's something we have got rid of over the past 50 years, with the end of the juntas in Greece, Spain, and Argentina; Franco's Spain; and so on. There are some countries where the military are not running the place, but are "kingmakers", but I can't think of any western ones.

Italy is such a western country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carabinieri

Re: Steve Wozniak used to tip from printed sheets of $2 bills

#527

Post by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #283
EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about how ubiquitous cameras are in NYC, but in China you will absolutely get caught by cameras, and no, a mask will not help you.

There are US cities with drones in the air taking pictures of the city. Say somebody robs a bank. Review the picture history from when they arrived at the bank, go backward watching their car until you find out where they live. Drive over and arrest them. This 'time machine' feature of ubiquitous surveillance is going to be a brave new world.

US cameras can only do license plates for now. China is clearly ahead in AI.

Re: Steve Wozniak used to tip from printed sheets of $2 bills

#528

Post by geomark »

lupire wrote: post #278
geomark wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you even legally required to provide ID to a federal officer? I know in some states that you are not required to provide ID to a police officer unless there is evidence you have committed a crime. Quite a few ornery citizens like to video themselves rejecting police officer's requests for ID.

1. Not being required to provide id is not a defense against actively lying to a officer. 2. If you are reasonably suspected of being involved in something illegal, you can be detained until identified by some means.

1. The way it usually goes is they don't lie; they just say no when asked to provide ID.

2. It seems like the police officer has to be able to state what crime they suspect has been committed. Standing around looking suspicious is what usually draws attention but it isn't a crime so they just say no when the police ask for ID.

But that's for local police in some states. So again, is it different when you refuse ID to a federal officer? I think the answer is no, that there is no federal statute that requires you to identify yourself to a federal officer unless you are suspected of a committing a crime. But IANAL nor a member of law enforcement nor one of those ornery people who like to challenge the police and even hope they will be arrested on false pretenses so they can have fun suing the police.

Re: Steve Wozniak used to tip from printed sheets of $2 bills

#529

Post by uni_rule »

CalRobert wrote: post #222
dereg wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t help but shake my head at most of these comments. There was a time when we celebrated anecdotes like this here on Hacker News. I’ve seen this story circulated many times but this is the first time I’ve seen this sort of reaction. These aren’t rose colored glasses, anyone can look up threads of old in which we cheered such defiance toward authority. People are frothing to frame this story with 2023 glasses and…

I think things like this were more likely to get laughed off or at most a scolding from a judge back then , as opposed to some BS terrorism-related charge, back in the day. I think back to what I did in high school with model rocket engines and the like and I'd probably be convicted of something now. Standard caveat of being a middle class white dude makes this easier.

Often my dad would recant to me absolutely batshit anecdotes about the antics people around him got into punctuated by "but it was the 70s". The past truly is a different country.

Re: Steve Wozniak used to tip from printed sheets of $2 bills

#530

Post by hnfong »

fsloth wrote: post #368
hnfong wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you're right that his actual risk is non-existent because some people are more equal than others. I would hope we're not in such a world though.

This was not as much about privilege than about Woz having a life long experience of trying to bend conventions and rules and probably had a good intuition how far he could goof off given his social and financial status etc.

Doubtful. You only need to make one mistake to throw your life off track when it comes to playing on the edges of the legal system. You don't know how "close" you're getting until you get a conviction.
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