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“It’s time for Apple to fix texting”

android.com

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Re: “It’s time for Apple to fix texting”

#511

Post by O__________O »

DoctorOW wrote: post #497
O__________O wrote: post #486

Neither SMS, nor RCS, have built-in end-to-end encryption — and both should die a quick and timely death. iMessage to use end-to-end encryption, but it’s not open, and should also die. What messaging needs is an open modern standards, nothing more, nothing less.

RCS on Signal/Android does: https://www.gstatic.com/messages/papers/messages_e2ee.pdf

Hence why I said “not built in” — also per the document, “all RCS chat messages will be E2EE if both clients have the latest version of Messages” which means if an attacker with enough resources blocked the target end-point and inserted a device without the add-on E2EE encryption, sounds like the messages would be sent in the clear, which to me is not end-to-end encryption; that is unless both parties get an alert the messages will be sent in the clear, preferably before they are, using prior method a nation state or telecommunications company at their order could likely easily read all the messages and forward them on without either party knowing. Hence, SMS & RCS need to die.

Am I missing something?

PS- Assuming that document is by Google, but unclear, what is the source that links to it?

Re: “It’s time for Apple to fix texting”

#512

Post by cmelbye »

jabbany wrote: post #308
rootusrootus wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European legislators are why I now have a cookie banner on every website I visit. It is hard to be enthusiastic for more of that. I could support basic antitrust actions that actually promote competition, but when it gets into actually writing technical requirements, the outcome seems less than ideal.

It's fine to debate what exact policy is the best, but it's not productive to just dismiss all regulation as bad because some are inconvenient. FWIW, the only reason cookie banners are annoying is because the sites intentionally made it that way to bully you into allowing 3rd party cookies. EU regulations allow a site to not have banners if 3rd party tracking is opt-in. They could easily do it via a separate settings…

The problem is that it's insane to leave all of this for the website to implement correctly. It's a UX nightmare and it opens the door for a company to game the system, secretly ignore my privacy setting, etc. The EU solution is, of course, to turn a technical problem into a legal problem. Sue the company if their "Allow" button is too big or it doesn't work as advertised.

It should be a consistent browser-based preference that makes it impossible for a website to do something that I told it not to do. The problem with that is it requires innovation because cookies have inherent privacy design flaws. When you can't innovate, legislate.

Re: “It’s time for Apple to fix texting”

#513

Post by broodbucket »

zeusk wrote: post #502

As someone who worked around Windows Phone and had to deal with Google's unwillingness to support other eco systems; Pound sand android.

Companies will always act in their own best interest, that doesn't mean you should let spite get in the way of what would be a positive change for consumers. Google sucks. Apple sucks. Microsoft sucks. Unifying a broken ecosystem is a net positive regardless of which entity happens to be championing it

Re: “It’s time for Apple to fix texting”

#514

Post by cbsmith »

altairprime wrote: post #59

Most businesses, consumers, and developers universally continue to ignore the primary reason that iMessage is a closed platform, rather than an app on every platform as iTunes is: Apple is using device serial numbers for anti-spam, supported by a fully-authenticated hardware and software stack that does not allow user modification. This permits Apple to simply “console ban” any Apple device that spams on iMessage. Th…

I mean... the spam texting I get is annoying, but it doesn't seem much different between iOS vs. Android devices...

Re: “It’s time for Apple to fix texting”

#515

Post by thomasahle »

enaaem wrote: post #57
willio58 wrote: post #25

From what I’m seeing RCS just isn’t a true solution. Apple and Google should come together to create a standard outside of the carriers.

Do we really need a single standard? I and many others use multiple messaging services and it’s fine. Each has their pros and cons. I can also contact people in multiple ways if one service fails.

I would't even mind not having a _single_ standard, as long as all the standards were _open_ standards.

If I could use an Android iMessage client when I have to talk to iPhone users, that would be fine. Or we could even see the rebirth of multiplatform messengers like Pidgin, Gajim and Trillian.

The issue is that right now there is no way to have a modern text conversation with iPhone users (high quality media, reactions etc.) if they don't want to leave iMessage. (Most of them don't.)

Re: “It’s time for Apple to fix texting”

#516

Post by paulryanrogers »

rootusrootus wrote: post #258
kelnos wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like other people in this thread already get a lot of iMessage spam, so I guess you've just been lucky? And it shows that this attestation junk doesn't actually curb the spam problem, so it's just an analogue of security theater. Anyhow, sure, if you want to give away your freedom to actually own your devices, just so you don't get spam... I guess that's your choice. I just don't want to be locked into a syste…

> Sounds like other people in this thread already get a lot of iMessage spam Same folks who didn't realize that all messages show up in the same color, the blue bubbles only happen when you send . They're getting SMS spam. > I just don't want to be locked into a system where that's the only choice. Who's locked in? I can and have switched back and forth between iPhone and Android devices. My contacts are sync'd betwe…

> Who's locked in? I can and have switched back and forth between iPhone and Android devices.

The cost to switch is not trivial for most of the world. And the cost of iPhones is high compared to the alternatives.

Re: “It’s time for Apple to fix texting”

#517

Post by broodbucket »

smoldesu wrote: post #417
kart23 wrote: post #409

I and a ton of other kids switched to iphones in HS purely because of imessage. Google knows how big a lock-in factor it is. the wsj article from a while ago is actually the truth: group chats are terrible, mms just doesn't work, etc. https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-apples-imessage-is-winning-...

Maybe deep down, a lot of people on HN did too but won't admit it. Not calling anyone out, but I know how the crowd around here values 'networking' and the vanity associated with it.

Also just because the bubble vanity isn't an issue in your circles, doesn't mean it isn't an issue in other circles. Whether it's a stupid issue or not is irrelevant, it seems to be a real thing in many people's lives

Re: “It’s time for Apple to fix texting”

#518

Post by Karupan »

thomasahle wrote: post #473
tristor wrote: post #453

This is a complete non-issue. I have no idea why people are complaining about this, except as another way in which Android users are trying to force their ecosystem choices on everyone else. The majority of people globally don't even use built-in messengers, they use WhatsApp or a similar application, most of which uses similar stylistic design choices as Apple uses for SMS, so it's hardly an issue. I'm well aware th…

> regardless of what aesthetic and design choices somebody in Apple's UX team makes for their built-in messaging app It's not about aesthetic design, and it's not just about high schoolers. Lots of grown up Apple users don't like adding Android users to their group chats, because falling back to MMS degrades the messaging experience for everyone. Things like images sending in low enough resolution to be useless. As a…

> As a European moving to the US, I can attest how hard it is to get Apple users to switch their group chats to WhatsApp/Facebook/Signal

I see this as more of a cultural problem. When I travel back to India, I don't complain that I can't use iMessage since iPhones are a rarity. Instead, I install whatever app I need to be involved in a group. And I weigh the cost against the value I get - if it's too much of a change for too little gain, I'd gladly sit it out.

I'm not saying the solution is to force users to buy iPhones. But the core problem isn't purely technical either.

Re: “It’s time for Apple to fix texting”

#519

Post by frogpelt »

kelnos wrote: post #116
altairprime wrote: post #59

Most businesses, consumers, and developers universally continue to ignore the primary reason that iMessage is a closed platform, rather than an app on every platform as iTunes is: Apple is using device serial numbers for anti-spam, supported by a fully-authenticated hardware and software stack that does not allow user modification. This permits Apple to simply “console ban” any Apple device that spams on iMessage. Th…

I'd rather live in a world with spam than a world where corporations get to decide what I run on my devices, and cripple a bunch of critical applications if I decide I want to, y'know, actually do whatever I want with the hardware I own. I'm not unsympathetic to Apple's difficulties and goals here (assuming this spam problem is actually the reason, though I'm skeptical that there aren't also self-serving reasons that…

I agree in principle. But it depends on how much spam and what the corporations are allowing.
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