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Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

macrumors.com

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Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#511

Post by zackmorris »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #401
zackmorris wrote: post #263

Is there a way to send a strong signal that we don't want this? Companies seem to think that they can make infinite money by denying customers what they want. But in this case, the only thing propping up the iPhone is the dominant market position of Apple and whatever intellectual property protections and lobbying allow Apple to keep bundling their hardware and software. Maybe it's time to remind them of their legal…

> But in this case, the only thing propping up the iPhone is the dominant market position of Apple Surely, Apple selling lots of phones has nothing to do with people buying a product that appeals to them, and only to do their evil lobbying and manipulation. Too bad this evil company Apple has replaced the Apple of your youth, that was cool, and not a for-profit company. Homie, they’re removing the SIM card because th…

Perhaps I overreacted, but this is part of a deeper cluster of problems that decommodification deals with:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decommodification

Vendor lock-in gradually erodes our freedom. I want to be able to use my own flash storage for expansion, I want to be able to replace my own battery without tools, I want a headphone jack. Times countless other questionable design decisions across their product lines, and those of companies which copied them, that make me sad for what could have been.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#512

Post by olliej »

kaba0 wrote: post #51
olliej wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh JavaCard, you have succeeded despite being horrific. It's also used for ATM cards, credit cards, etc. And Apple Pay :D I wonder if any environment uses log4j? (jk I hope. The JavaCard spec is fairly limited so maybe it's accidentally safe :D )

Why do you think it is horrific? Haven’t had the chance to look into it so all I know about it is that it uses Java ME which is a very limited subset of Java SE.

I would much rather a defined protocol rather than arbitrary code. It also means you can require multiple distinct applets on your phone for each card provider.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#513

Post by dkonofalski »

NullPrefix wrote: post #501
dkonofalski wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate? I can get an eSIM with service in less than 5 minutes and never leave my house/hotel using Apple Pay.

Yes, but is it contactless? If I write you a letter on a piece of paper, is it wireless transmission? Mind you, paper has no wires. Contactless payment is the marketing term for NFC technology. It has nothing to do with you not interacting with other people.

My point was that the payment was contactless. You don't have to give any paper or anything to another person. It's handled by Apple Pay using whatever payment method you want and the vendor/provider never gets your info.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#515

Post by rosndo »

sandworm101 wrote: post #393
aorth wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand. I can get an eSIM from my telecom provider and scan it with a QR Code to activate it in Android. I've done this with Telenor in Europe and Zain in the Middle East. It works great. I can even switch between them on the fly! How does the phone manufacturer have anything to do with it? My only wish is to support multiple eSIMs, as now I only have one physical SIM slot and one eSIM.

You can get one today. Tomorrow, after a "security update", apple could just decide that it doesnt like certain ISPs and reject thier virtual sims. Rejecting hardware sims is much more difficult and is likely a violation in many jurisdictions.

Can you find these regulations that apply specifically to physical SIM cards? No? Weird.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#516

Post by sangnoir »

FDSGSG wrote: post #478
sangnoir wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt payment is part of the spec, but I bet you a dollar Apple Payments is going to factor into the "seamless provisioning experience".

You would lose that dollar. eSIMs have been available on iOS for ages and have nothing to do with "Apple Payments".

You're too focussed on the narrow technology implementation and not on the potential consumer experience.

Here's what a rational, profitable scenario would look like to me: in the not-too-distant-future, you land in country X and you get prompted if you would you like a local number by partner Mobile network. If you agree, Apple submits your electronic ID[1] to the Mobile Network for KYC purposes (with your opt-in), you pay with your Apple wallet, and you get a local number. The network gets paid, and Apple gets its cut (as well as a subsequent payments, if it's a PAYG plan) - and you haven't even picked up your baggage from the carousel. Apple can even play off networks against each other and pick the more profitable ones, and consumers get a sleek onboarding experience for a fee, or bundled with your Apple TV/iTunes/iServices subscription, so you can resume watching season 10 of Foundation while you wait for your Uber.

1. https://www.macrumors.com/2021/11/15/apple-strict-terms-on-u...

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#517

Post by rosndo »

sangnoir wrote: post #516
FDSGSG wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would lose that dollar. eSIMs have been available on iOS for ages and have nothing to do with "Apple Payments".

You're too focussed on the narrow technology implementation and not on the potential consumer experience. Here's what a rational, profitable scenario would look like to me: in the not-too-distant-future, you land in country X and you get prompted if you would you like a local number by partner Mobile network. If you agree, Apple submits your electronic ID[1] to the Mobile Network for KYC purposes (with your opt-in),…

You are criticizing a weird strawman here. eSIMs already work on iPhones, it would be difficult for Apple to walk back on that.

Removing the SIM slot isn’t a step into that direction, removing standards compliant eSIM support would be.

Or maybe your comment isn’t meant as a criticism at all, I think that actually sounds pretty awesome. As long as we retain the ability to load our own eSIMs.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#518

Post by NullPrefix »

dkonofalski wrote: post #513
NullPrefix wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but is it contactless? If I write you a letter on a piece of paper, is it wireless transmission? Mind you, paper has no wires. Contactless payment is the marketing term for NFC technology. It has nothing to do with you not interacting with other people.

My point was that the payment was contactless. You don't have to give any paper or anything to another person. It's handled by Apple Pay using whatever payment method you want and the vendor/provider never gets your info.

My point was that paper letter was wireless too. Wireless, same as contactless, is a name we use for particular technology.

I totally agree that it could have been Apple Pay, Paypal Pay or whatever else Bingus Pay, but it definitely was not contactless, because there was no NFC radio communication involved.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#519

Post by kop316 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #264
kop316 wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I helped my dad get a new iPhone at an Apple store without my mom (who is the primary holder of the phone account), my dad had to give all sorts of information to the employee and had to jump through a bunch of hoops that involved my mom being on the phone to give to the employee (things like giving my mom's SSN to the employee, sending a text to my mom's phone, and some other things I cannot remember now). Afte…

That experience has nothing to do with eSIM or physical SIM. It has to do with current protocols that mobile networks use to transfer phone numbers. Which can, and should change to something better than providing the SSN and passcode of the mobile network primary account holder who “owns” that phone number. If anything, your experience should lead you to advocate to a quicker change to eSIM, so that your dad can cont…

> That experience has nothing to do with eSIM or physical SIM. It has to do with current protocols that mobile networks use to transfer phone numbers.

Given that so many things are tied to a phone number (they shouldn't, but are), there should be strong authentication measures to transfer phone numbers.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#520

Post by kop316 »

Nursie wrote: post #276
kop316 wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I helped my dad get a new iPhone at an Apple store without my mom (who is the primary holder of the phone account), my dad had to give all sorts of information to the employee and had to jump through a bunch of hoops that involved my mom being on the phone to give to the employee (things like giving my mom's SSN to the employee, sending a text to my mom's phone, and some other things I cannot remember now). Afte…

That’s down to your network. I was able to buy an e-sim over the internet in a few minutes from Vodafone UK, while not even being in the UK, and set it up by scanning a QR code that got emailed to me. Your problem isn’t the e-sim, it’s a shitty network.

> buy an e-sim

I wasn't trying to buy a new number, I was trying to transfer an existing one. It doesn't surprise me that they make it as easy as possible to get a new one.

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