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Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

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Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#261

Post by notreallyserio »

barrkel wrote: post #258
timcederman wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the comments here at all. Advocating for a far less convenient physical solution over a digital solution - on HN? Has anyone here actually dealt with eSIMs vs regular SIMs? I've been using phones since SIM cards were the size of a credit card, and eSIMs are amazing in every way compared to physical SIMs. What am I missing?

Every time I've transferred my eSIM to a different phone, I had to get a QR code regenerated. Physical SIMs can be swapped in seconds. Was your experience of transfer simpler? Have you ever switched SIMs continuously, in an ad-hoc way, because you had more SIMs than phones? This isn't that unusual if you're on a road trip or, especially, if you're relocating.

I haven't used an eSIM. Is regenerating a QR code more onerous than driving to a store to buy a SIM or waiting for one to arrive in the mail?

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#262

Post by Godel_unicode »

threeseed wrote: post #142
keraf wrote: post #57

Hopefully by removing the SIM tray, they have now enough space to put the headphone jack back. (bit of sarcasm but I really miss headphone jacks in mobile phones)

> but I really miss headphone jacks in mobile phones Buy a USB-C/Lightning to 3.5mm dongle and leave it permanently attached. Not ideal I know. But one benefit is that the DAC Apple designed in that dongle is so good that the sound quality far exceeds any phone with a built-in 3.5mm jack.

> ...far exceeds any phone with a built-in...

This is absolutely not true, there are a ton of phones with better DAC/amp combos than the one on the Apple dongle (and even when the dongle is better, it's frequently not better by enough to be audibly different). Unfortunately some of the best analog audio came on phones that were made by LG who threw in the towel last year.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#263

Post by zackmorris »

Is there a way to send a strong signal that we don't want this? Companies seem to think that they can make infinite money by denying customers what they want. But in this case, the only thing propping up the iPhone is the dominant market position of Apple and whatever intellectual property protections and lobbying allow Apple to keep bundling their hardware and software. Maybe it's time to remind them of their legal vulnerabilities if they insist on pursuing these anticompetitive tactics.

My fear isn't actually Apple, it's the loss of Apple. I've watched as they've lost just about every last noble aspect that inspired me growing up. Somehow they went from an art and education platform to just another corporate behemoth. I find myself questioning more and more whether they are even innovating anymore, or if they're just using their dominant position to vacuum up all of the capital. Same with all of the other tech companies.

I guess what I'm saying is that I feel that Apple is already gone whenever I read that they're even considering things like this. If they do it, then I would feel a tremendous sense of shame as an engineer if I worked at Apple. That's really what it comes down to. Can we continue to silently endorse abusive behaviors by working for these companies, or is it time to withdraw our support and form new companies that do actual research and innovate again?

Big can of worms there, but, I find myself considering the idea more and more in these times.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#264

Post by lotsofpulp »

kop316 wrote: post #240
timcederman wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the comments here at all. Advocating for a far less convenient physical solution over a digital solution - on HN? Has anyone here actually dealt with eSIMs vs regular SIMs? I've been using phones since SIM cards were the size of a credit card, and eSIMs are amazing in every way compared to physical SIMs. What am I missing?

When I helped my dad get a new iPhone at an Apple store without my mom (who is the primary holder of the phone account), my dad had to give all sorts of information to the employee and had to jump through a bunch of hoops that involved my mom being on the phone to give to the employee (things like giving my mom's SSN to the employee, sending a text to my mom's phone, and some other things I cannot remember now). Afte…

That experience has nothing to do with eSIM or physical SIM. It has to do with current protocols that mobile networks use to transfer phone numbers.

Which can, and should change to something better than providing the SSN and passcode of the mobile network primary account holder who “owns” that phone number.

If anything, your experience should lead you to advocate to a quicker change to eSIM, so that your dad can control his phone number without needing someone else’s SSN.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#265

Post by hnburnsy »

timcederman wrote: post #229
tablespoon wrote: post #193

I don't like it. Having a physical object the embodies your phone's identity is a lot easier to deal with in many ways than an ethereal emulation of said object. For instance, if I'm traveling I can just buy a SIM card at a kiosk and pop it in, even if I can only communicate through little more than pointing and grunting. Another example: I got a new phone recently, but since all my stuff was still on my old phone, a…

I don't understand the comments here at all. Advocating for a far less convenient physical solution over a digital solution - on HN? Has anyone here actually dealt with eSIMs vs regular SIMs? I've been using phones since SIM cards were the size of a credit card, and eSIMs are amazing in every way compared to physical SIMs. What am I missing?

To me it is more loss of control of our devices; No headphone jack, Bluetooth doesn't actually turn off, no SD card slot, locking batteries and screens, powering off the phone but it is still awake, now no SIM card.

[yes I know some deeply buried settings can override the above]

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#266

Post by deep-root »

Nbox9 wrote: post #222
tablespoon wrote: post #193

I don't like it. Having a physical object the embodies your phone's identity is a lot easier to deal with in many ways than an ethereal emulation of said object. For instance, if I'm traveling I can just buy a SIM card at a kiosk and pop it in, even if I can only communicate through little more than pointing and grunting. Another example: I got a new phone recently, but since all my stuff was still on my old phone, a…

> Having a physical object the embodies your phone's identity A SIM is not a embodiment of an iPhone’s identity. Maybe it was in the 90s, but today it’s so much more. The SIM is more like your iPhone’s credentials for accessing one network. You can change SIMs, change your access token for one network, but you are making no bigger impact on your phone’s “identity” than if you were to change Wi-Fi networks. List of Id…

They were correct. They're saying your phone service identity (I am X number on Y network plan). Not your personal identity (pictures of your kids and passwords).

Today if your phone fails, you can pop a sim in another phone and regain your phone service identity within minutes. No SIM, it could take days or even weeks.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#267

Post by givinguflac »

tablespoon wrote: post #193

I don't like it. Having a physical object the embodies your phone's identity is a lot easier to deal with in many ways than an ethereal emulation of said object. For instance, if I'm traveling I can just buy a SIM card at a kiosk and pop it in, even if I can only communicate through little more than pointing and grunting. Another example: I got a new phone recently, but since all my stuff was still on my old phone, a…

I recently had an iPhone repaired and apple wiped the device including the eSIM. I took it to the Verizon store and even they couldn’t get the eSIM working again and I walked out with a new physical SIM. They need to plan a lot more of the experience out before removing the SIM in my opinion as well.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#268

Post by DonHopkins »

kaba0 wrote: post #52
unobatbayar wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Changing carriers, mostly.

Well, you can still smash your phone with a brick if you really want to.

The terrible user interfaces of many iPhone apps make me want to do just that.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#269

Post by lotsofpulp »

zackmorris wrote: post #263

Is there a way to send a strong signal that we don't want this? Companies seem to think that they can make infinite money by denying customers what they want. But in this case, the only thing propping up the iPhone is the dominant market position of Apple and whatever intellectual property protections and lobbying allow Apple to keep bundling their hardware and software. Maybe it's time to remind them of their legal…

> But in this case, the only thing propping up the iPhone is the dominant market position of Apple and whatever intellectual property protections and lobbying allow Apple to keep bundling their hardware and software.

I think it might have something to do with selling a product that customers prefer over the alternatives.

Re: Apple said to be preparing for iPhones without SIM card slot in 2022

#270

Post by bellyfullofbac »

Nbox9 wrote: post #256
tablespoon wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Having a physical object the embodies your phone's identity > The SIM is more like your iPhone’s credentials for accessing one network. That's what I meant. Anyone with any familiarity with SIM cards knows it's no personality chip that brings everything over with it, and if it were such a thing it would probably be pretty annoying.

Actually, the SIM card use to be a “personality chip” in the 1990s. It stored your phone number and your contacts. There’s a scene in The Wire where a drug dealer confuses the police by changing the sim card of his phone when talking about criminal activity, which evades electronic surveillance (changing the phone’s ID on the network) and physical surveillance (sims are very small and concealable). I was specifically…

But the phone hardware also has an IMEI, which it also tells the network: https://weartotrack.com/imei-number-blocked/

So it might be you're basing your knowledge from some fictional show where the writers got it wrong.

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