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You download the app and it doesn’t work

youdownloadtheappanditdoesntwork.com

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Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#511

Post by PeterStuer »

Any app can be split into a free client and a paid subscription. This is exactly the same as any business can move all of its profits to be made in some tax haven.

Just like in the latter, there is selective enforcement of the rules, leaving the most prominent corporations to carry on as they please while nailing the SME to the wall.

Pretty sure it will come to a point where the ingress of paid content into an app will be taxed, regardless of where the payment was made, and that this policy will be introduced by both Apple and Google.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#512

Post by pdonis »

acituan wrote: post #506
pdonis wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If app store was a standalone offering that aimed to benefit the user, there shouldn't be any problem allowing multiple competing app stores people paid for the convenience of vetted and curated apps and letting the market forces decide the winner. And if all that would benefit users more, users would be demanding it, or switching from iPhone to something else. But they're not. Users seem overall to be quite satisf…

> Users seem overall to be quite satisfied with what they are getting from their iPhones. So your claim here appears to be empirically false. A lack of reduction in observable demand doesn't imply an absence of cost. Let's say the cost of having a singular app store for the user can be expressed as 99$, but the average utility they derive from using their iPhone is valued at 100$. It would be rational for that user t…

> A lack of reduction in observable demand doesn't imply an absence of cost.

Waving your hands and throwing random numbers around doesn't imply a presence of cost.

> That is appeal to tradition.

It is no such thing. I'm just trying to figure out what your actual position is.

> monopolistic nature of tech combined with vertical integration is a large unsolved problem

Which makes it clearer what your position is: you think the problem with tech is "monopolistic nature combined with vertical integration".

I disagree. I think the problem with tech is that it is giving away valuable things for free, or selling them at or below cost, in order to capture users and sell their data and their eyeballs or corner markets. Apple is actually the least guilty of this of the major tech players; I'm far more worried about Google and Facebook and Amazon than I am about Apple. But at any rate, that problem is not a problem of monopoly and vertical integration. It's a problem of shortsightedness in general--putting short term gain and convenience over long term stability and trust.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#513

Post by WillYouFinish »

grwthckrmstr wrote: post #459

Seems like HN mods are flagging and removing anti-Apple posts from the front page. Why?

I was wondering about that, because I always thought, that HN was pretty open about everything and there wouldn’t be a lot of moderation or any at all. What is this? Facebook or Reddit?

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#514

Post by robbrown451 »

zaroth wrote: post #389
robbrown451 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but I think what tomlagier is saying is that the "right" thing to charge for is the payment processing (he also mentions app screening), as opposed to charging for the privilege of being allowed to run on Apple devices. Otherwise you get into all these issues that are potentially "wrong," at least from the perspective of people who agree with the general concept of antitrust law. It's not just whether something i…

Apple isn’t just providing payment processing. The entire development environment and SDK, app hosting, install and update, services like Data Sync (whatever they call it), Push notifications, etc. If Apple let apps side-load from a website, and not access any of the iCloud or push services... you’re basically back to a PWA.

"Apple isn’t just providing payment processing"

I didn't say they were. I said Apple's role is comparable, in that it is not deserving of automatic 30% of revenue. It may be a lot of services, but it still doesn't cost a lot per user and per app, especially when compared to what a brick and mortar retail store does.

And it certainly doesn't make sense for an app like Netflix, which is comparatively expensive per month because of how much use it gets, how much bandwidth it consumes, and all the licensing and production costs. Imagine if Netflix had to pay 30% to Apple.

Netflix gets away with not paying that 30% because they have leverage. But smaller apps can't. Sounds to me like exactly what antitrust is for.

"If Apple let apps side-load from a website, and not access any of the iCloud or push services... you’re basically back to a PWA."

If they wanted to (or were forced to by antitrust action), they could allow third party services to do all those things, and for them to interoperate. They choose not to because they make ungodly amounts of money the way they do things now.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#515

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

eddieroger wrote: post #303
iSoron wrote: post #5

> "That’s not what we want on the store" -- Apple Vice President of Worldwide Marketing What if I own an iPhone and HEY is what I want on my phone? How can I override Apple's decision? If I can't, who really owns this device?

It’s their store, and they get to pick what’s in it. If you want stuff not available in that store, you need a new store. You own the phone, but you agreed to only load software on it from the one store, as it has been for the last decade.

No, they need to allow other stores with different rules and different pricing models. If not, then their store needs to drop the anti competitive practices. This is what the EU investigation is about.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#516

Post by baddox »

ric2b wrote: post #423
baddox wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t agree with that explanation of the gaming console exception. Modern consoles are actually quite similar to smartphones in the breadth of their functionality. To be consistent I think you’d need to include consoles, most smart TVs and media streamers, and even tech-heavy cars.

Games for consoles are sold in many different stores, I don't know why that's even being brought up.

I think the point is that console game’s code has to be signed by the console manufacturer or the console simply won’t run the code at all.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#517

Post by m463 »

gruez wrote: post #206
nodamage wrote: post #190

While I agree that Apple should probably relax their rules, this list of "exceptions" is not particularly compelling. The majority of them are companion apps for physical products/memberships for which the rules around in-app purchases do not apply: Tesla, Soho House, Wells Fargo, Blue Cross / Blue Shield, WeWork. Github has a free tier and doesn't require a paying membership to use. Netflix is a digital content app…

>While I agree that Apple should probably relax their rules, this list of "exceptions" is not particularly compelling. Yeah, the first few items on the list were relatively convincing, but the convincing-ness takes a nosedive further down the list. I mean, who in their right mind would compare hey to a companion app for a car?

You can purchase upgrades for your car via the tesla app.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#518

Post by m463 »

alfonsodev wrote: post #127
parsimo2010 wrote: post #52

I think there needs to be some distinction between apps that are the main product (or close to it) and apps that support another product (like there is npo point to having the app by itself, you should already have gotten the product/account before downloading the app). I don't know too much about Apple's rules to know if they use that criteria, but it makes sense to me. An app to manage your Tesla makes no sense unl…

The Tesla example is unfortunate to support he point because Apple doesn’t charge 30% on physical goods. A funny idea, maybe some apps should sell a physical card, or wearable that gives you access to premium features, but it would be ecological.

I believe you can upgrade your tesla capabilities from the tesla app, say enable autopilot for $7000 or the model 3 performance upgrade for I believe $2000 (?).

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#519

Post by nodamage »

MrStonedOne wrote: post #507
nodamage wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the app was not rejected for failing to meet the standards of the quote. It was rejected for failing to meet the App Store review guidelines. This whole website is a strawman built against the false claim that you're not allowed to require a login to access your app, which has never actually been true.

Except its not about rather or not the app was rejected It's about the policy creating the trend of apps that don't work in that you can't sign up on them.

Except the policy doesn't create the trend. The Tesla app won't work if you don't own a Tesla. The Wells Fargo app won't work if you don't have a Wells Fargo account. These apps have external requirements by their very nature, the App Store policy does not change that.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#520

Post by nodamage »

etse wrote: post #499
nodamage wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that's a crappy explanation by the VP but that's not the actual reason for the rejection.

I too think it’s a poor response from the head of the App Store but we shouldn’t pretend to think we know the “actual” reason that much better because we are given a link to the ever-changing App Store regulations webpage.

The actual reason is the app does not follow the rules for in-app purchases. This hasn't really been in question. Anyone who has been an iOS dev for more than a year or two will be familiar with the App Store review guidelines.

Are the rules overly restrictive? Yes. Due they place an unfair burden on third party developers? Probably. But let's not pretend they are a mystery.

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