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iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

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Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#501

Post by Mindwipe »

wruza wrote: post #203
wvenable wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see no moral issue with government regulation to make our lives better. People would still buy cars if seatbelts weren't a standard feature. They'd still by deodorant if it put holes in the ozone. Vote with their money only works if companies make a product you can buy. Where's the iPhone "unlocked edition" that costs $20 more that I can buy? They don't make it.

$appliancevendorname also doesn’t make +$20 programmable washers. Arguments like this only appear when there’s an urge for an argument. Just buy an unlocked android phone, they exist with similar or better hw for $500 less.

The damage the App Store causes is far, far wider than iOS users. The entire online ecosystem is shaped by app store censorship - we've seen again and again massive sites actively discrimate against kink, BDSM and queer communities because Apple requires to do so, and building different moderation for different end user devices is effectively impossible at scale.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#502

Post by IceWreck »

mnd999 wrote: post #442
hurtuvac78 wrote: post #250

Apple being motivated by improving security are BS, and it pains me te see people in this forum falling for it or reapeating this. There is a great tool to increase security: the browser and its sandbox. You don't need to install anything fishy on your phone, and the sandbox rights coukd be sufficient for many apps. But as an example, Apple denies the full screen feature for websites and even PWA... only installed on…

Users don’t want crappy PWAs, they want something that follows the platform UI conventions. It’s good that Apple care enough about about UX to actually enforce this.

So you're saying Apple knows what I like and what I don't ?

It should be my choice

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#503

Post by Cort3z »

mnd999 wrote: post #442
hurtuvac78 wrote: post #250

Apple being motivated by improving security are BS, and it pains me te see people in this forum falling for it or reapeating this. There is a great tool to increase security: the browser and its sandbox. You don't need to install anything fishy on your phone, and the sandbox rights coukd be sufficient for many apps. But as an example, Apple denies the full screen feature for websites and even PWA... only installed on…

Users don’t want crappy PWAs, they want something that follows the platform UI conventions. It’s good that Apple care enough about about UX to actually enforce this.

I want good PWAs. I don’t want borderline spyware-apps with access to all kinds of apis. There is no reason why a messaging app needs my gyro data, or gps, or all of the other stuff they just implicitly get because they are an app. I’m starting to think that some of the worst that ever happened was that Firefox OS failed.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#504

Post by zgk7iqea »

mirekrusin wrote: post #302

They should just allow installing other operating systems instead. If you want out of their platform, install Linux OS on your phone and have whatever you want there. Wouldn't that make everybody happy - Apple, EU and customers?

Linux on mobile is a major step back both in terms of security and usability. Modern smartphone App Sandboxes are immensely better than desktop paradigms. Sideloading should be allowed, tho.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#505

Post by capableweb »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #473
matsemann wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they want it, download the app then. Allow others to not download it and use a PWA if they'd like. Actually I believe you're wrong: if people actually preferred Apple's way of doing it, Apple would have no reason to restrict other ways. They restrict it because people prefer the other way, and that would harm Apple's profits.

They continue to restrict it because look at how much trash was (is?) on the Android store; they restricted it even more in the early days because of the torrent of low effort fart / gag apps.

> They continue to restrict it because look at how much trash was (is?) on the Android store

You're saying this like there isn't any trash on the Apple App Store? Come on... Beyond the top lists or other discovery models, the Apple App Store contains bunch of things that will never even be downloaded by anyone...

It was more exclusive in the beginning, I give you that. But today, it has as much trash as any other app store.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#506

Post by JoeyJoJoJr »

mnd999 wrote: post #442
hurtuvac78 wrote: post #250

Apple being motivated by improving security are BS, and it pains me te see people in this forum falling for it or reapeating this. There is a great tool to increase security: the browser and its sandbox. You don't need to install anything fishy on your phone, and the sandbox rights coukd be sufficient for many apps. But as an example, Apple denies the full screen feature for websites and even PWA... only installed on…

Users don’t want crappy PWAs, they want something that follows the platform UI conventions. It’s good that Apple care enough about about UX to actually enforce this.

Games are an obvious example where platform UI conventions aren’t applicable, and where Apple’s restrictions hinder not just UX (see discoverability in the App Store) but also incentivise shitty monetisation practices.

Gaming on mobile friggen sucks and that is primarily because Apple wants to retain control and the biggest piece of the pie.

Gaming in mobile browsers, in 2023, should be as easily accessible as it were in desktop browser in the Flash days. Apple just won’t come to the table to facilitate a decent gaming experience in Safari.

Let’s also not forget Steve Jobs was all for web standards in his letter against Flash. Apple should make good on what was promised in that letter instead of dragging their feet.

https://newslang.ch/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Thoughts-on-F...

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#507

Post by dontlaugh »

kaba0 wrote: post #85
edandersen wrote: post #76

I wonder if they considered an "iPhone Europe Edition" - USB-C, side loading, physical SIM cards. Sounds like a good phone!

What’s good about physical SIMs? I do like apple for daring to improve the status quo there, so I want my European Edition with only e-simsz

They’re actually supported by carriers. In the UK there’s only EE and only with a contract. I can’t use eSIM with EE pay as you go.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#508

Post by Bendy »

IceWreck wrote: post #502
mnd999 wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Users don’t want crappy PWAs, they want something that follows the platform UI conventions. It’s good that Apple care enough about about UX to actually enforce this.

So you're saying Apple knows what I like and what I don't ? It should be my choice

Apple doesn’t know what you want and neither do you. Apple makes you want.

Nobody, least of all oneself, knows what one wants (except in the moment; I want some peanuts) so we have to be told. And you certainly do have a choice, so long as it’s the right one.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#509

Post by vhanda »

hayst4ck wrote: post #72
heavyset_go wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The App Store is a poor line of defense, because it isn't about user security, it's about securing Apple's billion dollar app distribution monopoly moneyhose. User security is just a rhetorical afterthought. When we forgo real system safety in favor of gatekeeping corporate revenue, that isn't security. In fact, such a scheme is responsible for mass distribution of malware. Apple's App Store is responsible for distri…

I think you need to look at the system of incentives and alignment If apple's billion dollar app distribution monopoly money hose results in security problems for people, then their billion dollar app distribution monopoly money hose will be in jeopardy since it's justification comes into question. So what you see as a problem is what makes me feel the best about it. Apple is aligned with only secure apps on their st…

> then their billion dollar app distribution monopoly money hose will be in jeopardy

It only comes under jeopardy, if there are reasonable alternatives the Apple app store (not move to Android).

Otherwise, it's easy for Apple to say - we are now taking step x, y and z, and "trust us".

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#510

Post by tonylemesmer »

76SlashDolphin wrote: post #349
tonylemesmer wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engineering disagrees. Having safety interlocks on machines is seen as necessary and sensible to prevent accidental harm. If you want to achieve something that you think sideloading is the only answer for then maybe try and find another solution? Btw. I’m not arguing we shouldn’t educate people about the dangers of phishing etc etc. just that engineers should find better solutions than shortcuts. Some people will nev…

Security features should be there to prevent a user from accidentally letting malicious things happen. Key word: accidentally. One does not accidentally enable apk installation from untrusted sources on Android. If you spend the time going deep into the settings of your phone, and dismiss two massive security warnings then I don't really have any sympathies and those users should have some more common sense. It's lik…

Except when a sideloading switch is so easy to access that naive users are easily manipulated into enabling it or having a security policy installed on their phones that disables it.
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