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CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

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Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iron-air batteries (1,200 Wh/kg), and in general metal-air [1], might bring a surprise after 2024: December 2022, "Form Energy will site first American iron-air battery manufacturing plant in Weirton, West Virginia" [2]. [1] 2017, Yanguang Li, Jun Lu, Metal–Air Batteries: Will They Be the Future Electrochemical Energy Storage Device of Choice? https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsenergylett.7b00119 Betteridge's law of…

The various "-air" batteries tend to have major downsides... They tend to get heavier as they discharge. They usually aren't rechargeable (or if they are, only a few times or with much lower energy densities). They tend to self-discharge within a few weeks of non-use.

and I think they can't output as much current like the current batteries too.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in the Netherlands, we'd translate 31mpg to "1 per 11". One can drive 11km on 1L of fuel. 1 per 11 is a joke. It's associated with heavy petrol cars from the 80s and 90s, before anybody even attempted efficiency. Even my 15 year old diesel car had an efficiency of 1/22. Adjust you driving style and I'd get 1/25. Range: 1000km, with an ordinary sized tank. It seems Americans haven't even started with efficiency,…

What's with these weird, grandiose generalizations I've been seeing about America on this site, based on single data points? Do you realize that other brands and models exist in the USA? Do you realize Tesla is and American company? Did you even check look into Chevy Cruze's mileage? Here's a guy getting 70mpg in a Chevy Cruze by driving 55mph on the highway. That's 30km/l. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15341744…

In my defense - I replied to someone who gave the 31mpg number. I should have verified that information myself first.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#503

Why does 500wh/kg make electric aircraft possible? 6x less than kerosene. Is that the break even on cost if you can source very cheap electricity? Seems like it would still annihilate the payload/range.

The best application I've seen for the currently available electric airplanes are flight schools. One plane I looked into has a flight time of 1.5hrs, which is plenty for training. When I last priced out instructor time, 30% of the cost was the fuel. This means that flight schools could cut prices by up to 25% or so. That being said, the plane I looked into was $250k, while a student level ICE plane could be had for $20-50k.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like the back of the envelope calculation must have slipped a decimal point somewhere. 9GW is approximately 1/4 of the total electrical consumption in the whole of the UK. From memory aviation as a whole is only 2% of global emissions (although it might have an extra forcing effect due to being released directly into the upper atmosphere) where as electricity generation is 20-40% of emissions.

To paint a rough and ready picture, aviation emissions are very heavily weighted towards richer, less populous countries, whereas electricity generation (and particularly fossil fuel generation) is (to a lesser degree) tilted towards where the mass of population is: https://ourworldindata.org/carbon-footprint-flying#:~:text=W... vs https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/carbon-intensity-electric... . Note that the colour…

I found some reference to Gatwick using 2.6 billion litres of fuel a year. If I follow the logic above I get circa 8 billion litres. I think most of this is because a Boeing 737 has a 3000nm range fully fueled which they wouldn't be using normally. In fact I suspect it's impossible to take off fully fueled and with a full complement of passengers (it certainly is for lighter aircraft).

Between that and the efficiency difference mentioned elsewhere I think that explains about an order of magnitude. I'm totally willing to accept they'd need a 1GW power station to power Gatwick but 9GW seems high.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#505
post #96

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No, not for another ~15 years and then I'll still be able to buy ICE car. EVs in current state are not so good and what's even worse new ICE cars are becoming shittier and shittier because of restrictions imposing on them

> EVs in current state are not so good Well then, good thing the world's largest battery maker is starting to mass-produce batteries with twice the energy density.

It solves only one of multiple problems new generations of cars (EVs especially) are facing

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#506

I do wonder sometimes if scraping the million plus of components, produced and assembled with great care into a ICE car and still relatively new, makes any sense. Re-powering seems no brainer to keep millions of new cars out of the scrapyard. And avoid the environmentally unsustainable production of slightly newer cars. Reusing them whole, engine included, is ideal. If battery re-powering, synthetic gasoline and hydr…

I believe that current car racing trends will paint a picture of the future of automobiles. The hybrid area is among us, and the technology used is so well thought out and advanced. Hybrid as in “go incredibly fast”, and not “save gas” like as with a Prius. Currently in F1 and the new prototype classes, they are using electrification in conjunction with the internal combustion engine to create more instantly availabl…

that seems very unlikely to be honest. Commercial cars are sold first on reliability and operating costs, which is why Americans are shying away from buying cars that have a basic turbo and prefer larger gas engines instead.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's wild to imagine that people would widely violently protest against such a change. Like, I find it pretty amusing to look back at the old news broadcasts of people objecting to allowing women in bars or disallowing drunk driving or requiring cars to come with seatbelts, but those all just feel like they're from a completely different time. If people in this day will espouse similarly intelligent positions, it'll…

I guess the problem is electric cars aren't cheap, even in SH market and public transport in some parts of europe and us just sucks. For example I can totally see banning selling ice cars in netherlands, sweeden, norway, israel and other regions with good transportation and richer people, but banning them in us, italy, greece, romania and other similar states (either because they're poor or public transport is bad) i…

They will become cheap though. As manufacturers move downmarket and the used Ev market grows. Maybe even cheaper than gas in the end - simpler, more reliable etc

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#508
post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow didn't even wait before busting out "what if CO2 doesn't cause global warming" and very obviously didn't read your own links. Running the denialist playbook as usual: slip in a insinuation that the issue has stopped without evidence, then drop a bunch of articles which don't support it while continuing to say "what if all the data supported me?" And then started alluding to a conspiracy with language choices like…

Climate cycles are natural [1]. Please refrain from using terms like denialist , it does nothing to help the discourse. Also, that 'bunch of articles' I sent does support what I said, this being a break in the rising temperature trend. You seem to want to hear much more in what was said, why is that? As to the 'conspiracy with language choices' I think you realise that this is no conspiracy but a simple fact - what u…

> denialist, it does nothing to help the discourse

When one party wins by default, they benefit from stalemate-seeking tactics. "Just Asking Questions" unfortunately works very well for this purpose. Dogma poisons the discourse, yes, but so does accidentally extending good faith to a bottomless well of bad faith questions, which has been the conservative playbook on climate change since forever. The counter-strategy is dogma.

In order to have a scientific discussion rather than a political discussion, we need to know your intentions, and that's extremely difficult on a pseudoanonymous internet forum. It sucks, but this is probably how it has to be.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, the poster was writing about the legal elimination of an option, which is does not fit such reduction. Some people value the qualities that the current (pun happened) alternatives do not offer: they are inadequate for some use cases. This includes long travel and refuelling in minutes. Furthermore, since societies are now suffering an epidemic of lunacy, electric cars can be extreme noise pollutants, be…

> Furthermore, since societies are now suffering an epidemic of lunacy, electric cars can be extreme noise pollutants, because insane manufacturers and users have turned them into a loud cacophonic concert - I have seen them. They can be unbearable. Well, isn't it then peoples choice to do that? Or do you instead argue for a ban of EVs? I don't get this point. I've never heard an electric car making more noise than t…

> Well, isn't it then peoples choice to do that?

No, you cannot have any freedom to be uselessly bothersome. That is basic in social rules. If you are missing that evidence, it is because societies have become extremely lax (especially in practical and mental effort. It's called a downfall).

> making more noise than the road noise

The topical noise is that which comes from the additional, artificial noises that are placed to warn the surrounding beings of the traffic, as a consequence of the fact that the vehicle would be less noisy because of the absence of the engine.

In a normal car you have the "natural" mechanical noises (hopefully muffled), whereas the lunatics have placed in a number of models a broadcast background sound that you could - if you never heard it - be assimilated to the starting sounds of operating systems in the nineties. Only, permanent during the running of the vehicle. The new noise is not "grey" as it was, but textured, like a chord of synthetic strings.

So, the prospect is of having streets full of running loudspeakers shouting their own unnatural chords. Which also means that even if you decided to live in an isolated spot of land you should not remain less then a few miles away from any street, if legislation and good un-common sense will not intervene.

> I've never heard

I have heard the scream from least two models from stellantis (probably from the same project); I am informed that the Bayern and others have researched sound textures of their own to promote the brand. I also have information that producers have contacted agencies to produce ringtones for their brand. Moreover, I have seen some implement beeps during parking operations - so your city will sound like a giant construction site.

--

Update: some passed by and left a silent note. Confirming the root point! The downfall is restricting people's freedom practically and creates a problem with freedom deontically.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#510
post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big reason for this is thermodynamics. A conventional internal combustion engine car has to convert chemical energy to kinetic energy - the absolute best theoretical efficiency of this might be 70%, but in practice it's more like 30%. Electric cars have to pay the same thermodynamic penalty, but they pay it at the power station (In practice, thanks to renewables, not all the electricity used to charge a car will…

It is a sign of the success of the oil industry that this analysis always takes the cost of electricity generation back to the source, but assumes that fuel stations pump from a perfect source of naturally refined/distilled hydrocarbons. It is surprisingly difficult to get numbers on how much oil is used to extract, refine and transport oil. The best I found was this: https://www.speakev.com/threads/energy-required-t…

ICE cars also have to often go out of their way to the fuel pump, while most EVs are charged at home/office.

There must be small impact of that as well to the CO2 calculations.

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