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CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

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421–430 of 919 posts

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#421
post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hybrids that emit carbon will still have a huge effect on global warming, simply because there are so many cars. There isn't a huge amount of headroom for efficiency increases, so you're only going to get anywhere near "net zero" by charging from a renewable grid nearly all the time.

According to this chart, road transport sector is responsible for 11.9 % of greenhouse emissions wordlwide.^1 Could you please expand upon how you define the huge effect it will have on global warming? Don't you think it's better to focus on other parts of that pie, where it's easier to implement widespread savings and change? ^1: https://ourworldindata.org/emissions-by-sector

We are already moving our electric grid to renewables. Wind and solar are both cheap sources of power, and have a lot of potential to account for more of the electric load. Putting electric on renewables, plus switching cars to EVs (charged by renewables) should eliminate 50% of that chart - and this is something we can pull off in less than 20 years. Some of the other 50% is also easy to switch to battery powered, but they are all small niches that each need to be worked on separately. (If you are in one of those niches please think about this!)

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#422
post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the term 'global warming' has been swapped for the latter since the average global temperature has gone down for a number of years after an earlier steady rise You're just going to throw that out there? You'll cite the Fischer-Tropsch process, but not "actually global temperatures are declining"? Here[1]. The temperature hasn't gone down. The narrative hasn't changed from global warming because of this (the term wa…

You are pointing at a single year, I am pointing at a trend [1,2]. The trend had been for the average global temperature to rise up to 2012 to 2016 - depending on which measurements you look at. After that period the average global temperature has declined by 0.06°C per year up to 2022. This change in the trend made the "global warming" moniker easily attacked "because the temperature are clearly going down". This is…

Wow didn't even wait before busting out "what if CO2 doesn't cause global warming" and very obviously didn't read your own links.

Running the denialist playbook as usual: slip in a insinuation that the issue has stopped without evidence, then drop a bunch of articles which don't support it while continuing to say "what if all the data supported me?" And then started alluding to a conspiracy with language choices like "dogma". Throw in some upfront tone policing because heaven forbid you have to defend your position vigorously and the recipe is complete.

Go on: hit me with "climate cycles are natural" and then lean into how the media just don't talk about the controversy.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#423
post #412
post #133

I just realized how much energy efficiency is being squeezed out of a Tesla. It's incredible. A normal diesel fueled sedan such as the Chevy Cruze diesel runs at about 31mpg, which is 13.2 km/l or 15.3 km/kg. Diesel has a mind-boggling 12700 Wh/kg energy density[1], which translates to an efficiency of ~827 Wh/km for the Chevy. By contrast, the Tesla Model S, has a ~540 kg battery[2]. At 272 Wh/kg (from the posted ar…

I have a fundamental question though. Will EVs (Li battery based) achieve the holy grail of IC engine replacement? Earth's Lithium deposits.................. 88,000,000,000 Kilograms [2], [3] @25% Viable for mining.................... 22,000,000,000 Kilograms [2], [3] Tesla S battery weight.................... 540 Kilograms per car [4] Lithium weight per Tesla S battery........ 63 Kilograms per battery [4] Max Tesla…

You didn't cite sources for the critical pieces of that (the first three numbers). You also assumed that the battery is 100% lithium, which is obviously wrong. A random Googling says closer to 62kg. And now I'm tired of bothering to fact check you.

I'm also going to say that all the car companies, battery companies, and governments in the world probably took six seconds to do basic math before investing trillions of dollars in it.

https://blog.evbox.com/ev-battery-weight

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#424
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really it is encouraging for advancement areas like this. Reminds me of the "revolutionary battery checklist": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28025930 edit: removed the paste of the checklist because of spam.

“No week goes by without a revolutionary battery technology” - Engadget, circa 2010

And that is why batteries have become so much better now than they were 20 years ago.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#425
post #412
post #133

I just realized how much energy efficiency is being squeezed out of a Tesla. It's incredible. A normal diesel fueled sedan such as the Chevy Cruze diesel runs at about 31mpg, which is 13.2 km/l or 15.3 km/kg. Diesel has a mind-boggling 12700 Wh/kg energy density[1], which translates to an efficiency of ~827 Wh/km for the Chevy. By contrast, the Tesla Model S, has a ~540 kg battery[2]. At 272 Wh/kg (from the posted ar…

I have a fundamental question though. Will EVs (Li battery based) achieve the holy grail of IC engine replacement? Earth's Lithium deposits.................. 88,000,000,000 Kilograms [2], [3] @25% Viable for mining.................... 22,000,000,000 Kilograms [2], [3] Tesla S battery weight.................... 540 Kilograms per car [4] Lithium weight per Tesla S battery........ 63 Kilograms per battery [4] Max Tesla…

One of the problems ahead of you personally is the insight that a Li battery is not 100% lithium. It's a fraction of that.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#427
post #165
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recharging a small plane with solar power would either take ages or hectares. Pick your poison. Recharging multiple airliners will take a nuclear reactor at the airport.

Recharging would take a lot of energy but it's not unthinkable to have 1-3 GW supplied to an airport (which is what a reactor would likely supply), large metropolitan areas and large industrial factories already get to similar amounts. It's a couple of transmission lines and most large airports are close to population centers anyway. The challenge would be getting the right amount at the right time, like now with qui…

This is true. It’s a big engineering project, but, guess what, airports are very big engineering projects.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#428
post #32
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article mentions aircraft multiple times. Once a range is achieved through available energy, reducing weight is a goal. The energy is more useful the less weight you need to move as then you can shave off a bit more weight as less energy was needed. Your car may not need this as much, an aircraft does.

Bicycles would benefit as well. I would love if my electric bicycle were slightly lighter.

Most people should achieve far more weight loss from their belly than from their bike. But you can pay money to make the bike light and that is easier than working on yourself.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#429
post #133

I just realized how much energy efficiency is being squeezed out of a Tesla. It's incredible. A normal diesel fueled sedan such as the Chevy Cruze diesel runs at about 31mpg, which is 13.2 km/l or 15.3 km/kg. Diesel has a mind-boggling 12700 Wh/kg energy density[1], which translates to an efficiency of ~827 Wh/km for the Chevy. By contrast, the Tesla Model S, has a ~540 kg battery[2]. At 272 Wh/kg (from the posted ar…

The big reason for this is thermodynamics. A conventional internal combustion engine car has to convert chemical energy to kinetic energy - the absolute best theoretical efficiency of this might be 70%, but in practice it's more like 30%. Electric cars have to pay the same thermodynamic penalty, but they pay it at the power station (In practice, thanks to renewables, not all the electricity used to charge a car will…

> the real power of electric vehicles

Generation can be from clean sources and is already happening in some jurisdictions.

Even if a clean source is not available, the pollution can best be controlled at the source. In this period of history, hundreds of millions of people make billions of polluting trips every day in their communities.

Although owning any car is the poorest choice of all for the environment, there are two ecological benefits to driving a BEV or a PHEV.

    * better efficiency than ICE
    * zero emissions in the case of BEV, zero emissions *for most trips* in the case of PHEV

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#430
post #412
post #133

I just realized how much energy efficiency is being squeezed out of a Tesla. It's incredible. A normal diesel fueled sedan such as the Chevy Cruze diesel runs at about 31mpg, which is 13.2 km/l or 15.3 km/kg. Diesel has a mind-boggling 12700 Wh/kg energy density[1], which translates to an efficiency of ~827 Wh/km for the Chevy. By contrast, the Tesla Model S, has a ~540 kg battery[2]. At 272 Wh/kg (from the posted ar…

I have a fundamental question though. Will EVs (Li battery based) achieve the holy grail of IC engine replacement? Earth's Lithium deposits.................. 88,000,000,000 Kilograms [2], [3] @25% Viable for mining.................... 22,000,000,000 Kilograms [2], [3] Tesla S battery weight.................... 540 Kilograms per car [4] Lithium weight per Tesla S battery........ 63 Kilograms per battery [4] Max Tesla…

But only a small portion of the battery's weight is lithium, right? This older source has a 453 kg Tesla battery as containing 63 kg of lithium, for example: https://electrek.co/2016/11/01/breakdown-raw-materials-tesla...
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