iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone • Hacker News Board

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#501

Post by trarmp » Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 9:44 PM UTC

arcticbull wrote: post #423

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An alt-store stands to capture more value on iOS than Android, and spying on iOS users is probably a whole lot more lucrative than spying on Android users. How so? I think American Apple users just don’t realise how insignificant Apple market share is outside the US. Android was open from the start. Giant like Amazon tried to kickstart alt stores. What did happen? Nothing. I think people should stop drinking Apple…

- 27.71% worldwide is iOS. - 56% in the US. - 34% in Europe. - 18% in Asia. - 13% in South America. [2] That all in mind Apple has 85% of the global share of smartphone profits. [1] Many Android players have a negative profit share. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-02-03/iphone-gr... [2] https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/

Those are numbers for smartphone sales, not the software on them. Hardware sales can be negative, sometimes even intended. Just look at console vendors for that.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#502

Post by danShumway » Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 9:45 PM UTC

TexanFeller wrote: post #10

I'm dreading this. I want privacy hostile companies like Facebook to have to comply with the app store rules and respect system settings relating to privacy. As a user, I'm thrilled when Apple wields its big stick to stop big tech companies from overreaching. Before there was a bit of a compromise, I could use evil apps with some peace of mind that they wouldn't do something egregious. Now I suspect evil apps just wo…

> I want privacy hostile companies like Facebook to have to comply with the app store rules and respect system settings relating to privacy.

Just as a general reminder, I heavily recommend that you not install Facebook on your phone even if you have an iPhone. There are good things Apple is doing with enforcing privacy controls, the controls aren't useless, but there are still loopholes: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2022/04/a-yea...

To provide a counter silver-lining to the concerns here, I'm hoping that if iOS gets sideloading that maybe apps like NewPipe could start becoming more commonly available for iOS users.

Right now, iOS is sort of stuck in this middle ground where Apple does legitimately do some excellent work reducing the privileges of apps, but also... you still have to use those apps if you want access to the services. It would be good to see more unofficial clients for some of these services like NewPipe or Twire get better support like they have on Android. I'm not knocking Apple here, they're trying to hit a middle ground between accessibility and privacy, but I don't want people thinking that the iOS version of Facebook isn't still tracking them. It's (hopefully) tracking less than it would on Android, but it's still tracking.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#503

Post by philwelch » Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 9:45 PM UTC

jclardy wrote: post #125

TexanFeller wrote: post #10

I'm dreading this. I want privacy hostile companies like Facebook to have to comply with the app store rules and respect system settings relating to privacy. As a user, I'm thrilled when Apple wields its big stick to stop big tech companies from overreaching. Before there was a bit of a compromise, I could use evil apps with some peace of mind that they wouldn't do something egregious. Now I suspect evil apps just wo…

I'm the opposite, as looking at android, where do we see this? All big players are still in the play store, because the average user of those services doesn't want to be bothered going to a website, clicking scary looking buttons to enable third party installs, then manually update their own installed apps. Basically the risk would be someone like TikTok dropping out of the store, but I find that unlikely. Maybe at t…

> Basically the risk would be someone like TikTok dropping out of the store, but I find that unlikely.

Maybe it's the other way around. I don't know the current legislative status of the attempts to ban TikTok, but the most realistic mechanism for doing so would involve banning it from app stores. By enabling sideloading, Apple would be enabling TikTok to circumvent such a ban.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#504

Post by trarmp » Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 9:48 PM UTC

akmarinov wrote: post #72

bena wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're missing something. Meta makes the Facebook app. Currently, the only way to get the Facebook app on iOS is through Apple's App Store. Which means Meta has to follow all of Apple's guidelines. Once sideloading is allowed, Meta can make a version of their app that does not follow Apple's guidelines. Now, they can maintain two apps, but last time I checked, the cost of maintaining one app was lower than th…

Apple will likely make the sideloading process so involved that it’ll be outside of the competency of the vast majority of the users. Facebook would just shoot themselves in the foot with having to support two apps for little value.

I would bet that Apple would still require developers to sign their apps, like they do on macOS.

That means you that if a vendor does something particularly egregious, stuff akin to malware, they can pull the certificate for that vendor. They don’t do that often: IIRC, they’ve only done that in macOS a handful of times.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#505

Post by yamtaddle » Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 9:50 PM UTC

pantalaimon wrote: post #496

yamtaddle wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > An alt-store stands to capture more value on iOS than Android, and spying on iOS users is probably a whole lot more lucrative than spying on Android users. > How so? What... part of this remains unclear? It's the same incentives that drive iOS-first development choices, with the added wrinkle that the App Store restricts the potential of certain monetization schemes (spying on users) more than the Play Store does…

Obviously the implication is that only plebs are using Android and affluent people are on iOS

Income demographics are almost certainly part of it, sure. I expect iOS also makes users feel safer or more comfortable spending money than Android does, and that the average iOS device in the wild is generally more pleasant to use than the average Android device. There could also be age-related demographic factors contributing (that is, Android users may skew older, and older people might spend less on software, and may tend to use their devices far less than younger smartphone owners—this is just a guess, though)

Whatever the reasons, iOS device owners use their devices a lot more, and spend a lot more money through them, than Android users, on average.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#506

Post by gorbypark » Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 10:00 PM UTC

seanw444 wrote: post #396

Apple has successfully convinced their base that leaving their walled garden is a danger. I wonder what particular word could be used to define that. Anyways, F-Droid is a clear example of how alternative sources of apps can be just as secure as the official one (and in F-Droid's case, more secure).

I think everyone agrees that not only Apple has the ability to offer an malware free App Store, it’s just that if F-Droid exists than so can G-Droid, the fork made by criminals to exploit less technical users. I think it’s overblown, though. Android has side loading and there doesn’t seem to be an epidemic of sketchy app stores.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#507

Post by diebeforei485 » Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 10:05 PM UTC

McDev wrote: post #394

diebeforei485 wrote: post #388

I don't like this. I don't want my government or school or employer to coerce/"encourage" me to install apps on my personal device.

Then don't install them.

It is not optional in most of these cases.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#508

Post by asdff » Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 10:08 PM UTC

tempodox wrote: post #314

browningstreet wrote: post #137

One upside I haven't seen discussed a lot about this: sideloading your own apps. I don't care, and don't really imagine, sideloading others' apps... but this could give rise to a hobbyist/customization wave again.

That's exactly what I want to do and what I hope this will eventually enable: Run my own apps on my own frigging devices (no distribution involved) without having to bribe Apple for the privilege (if you don't buy a Developer subscription, you have to re-install your apps weekly to keep them functional).

This would eat the app store alive and I could not be happier. So many very basic and simple, frequently cloned, but sometimes necessary apps exist out there that do the whole trial and subscription song and dance to collect rent. This is only because there is no path for open source alternatives. If there were, it would be like the state of affairs with desktop based software, where you have some first party solution, then on github there are typically a couple open source free alternatives if there is any demand for that sort of software, or there are even whole ecosystems like apt, brew, or conda to maintain open source software on your device.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#509

Post by nceqs3 » Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 10:10 PM UTC

dexterdog wrote: post #491

sizzle wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever used a Samsung Galaxy device in comparison? I’m being upsold on their bloatware left and right and third party services. I hate Samsung and Android now with a passion because they don’t respect my settings and often install random system settings that contradict my choices. iOS is a breath of fresh air in comparison and does none of this. I say this as a diehard Android G1/Nexus fanboy from way back bef…

Get a pixel and put graphene on it.

lol

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#510

Post by malermeister » Mon, Apr 17, 2023, 10:17 PM UTC

asdff wrote: post #508

tempodox wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly what I want to do and what I hope this will eventually enable: Run my own apps on my own frigging devices (no distribution involved) without having to bribe Apple for the privilege (if you don't buy a Developer subscription, you have to re-install your apps weekly to keep them functional).

This would eat the app store alive and I could not be happier. So many very basic and simple, frequently cloned, but sometimes necessary apps exist out there that do the whole trial and subscription song and dance to collect rent. This is only because there is no path for open source alternatives. If there were, it would be like the state of affairs with desktop based software, where you have some first party solutio…

There's F-Droid on Android, which is exactly what you're describing. App Store for Open Source projects. I'm hoping this brings something similar to Apple Devices!