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Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

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Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are also plenty of people who like their coworkers and enjoy spending time with them each day. I don't think everybody finds work to be an unfulfilling drain on their leisure time

My coworkers are great, but do you know who is better? My family and friends.

Most engineers don't have a family. And some don't have close friends.

Don't assume that your view of the world is the same for everyone.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think free food at work is particularly common outside of big silicone valley companies. Free espresso coffee (of middling quality) is pretty ubiquitous where I am though.

Here in Australia, every company I have worked at (non-FAANG) as a Software Engineer has had a kitchen, stocked with food under a "Grab what you want, when you want it" policy. Is it really that uncommon in the US outside of FAANG companies?

In Europe your employer can't provide you with free food, it's value is counted as taxable income.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The food/drink part could be the most of it. A Google employee enjoying free food and drink could save $60/day versus buying prepared food ($10 for breakfast, $20 for lunch, and $30 for dinner). If you drink much coffee or other beverages, that could be another $15/day. If you weigh this against spending an extra hour or two commuting, then it looks like a lousy bargain. But if you are like many people, and ended up…

$60? Wow, happy to not be in the US. I'd say I spend <$10 a day on food with good quality organic local ingredients.

That $60 is assuming that you're in an expensive area and are eating out three meals a day. You don't need to spend that much, even in NYC.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#504
I never thought I'd handle WFH well. When job-hunting, I'd always ignore fully remote jobs. It sounded totally depressing and demotivating to sit at home and interact with my coworkers virtually. I also always valued the office perks.

During the first few months, it felt like WFH stripped out all the non-work aspects of my job. At Google those perks were substantial, and it put the work itself in full focus.

But you know what? I like it now. I'm able to put in more focused work between 9 and 6 because I can take real breaks. There's less BS intruding on my life. In the office, your breaks feel more limited to 1) walking to grab a snack in the kitchen, 2) scrolling through something at your desk, or 3) going all the way outside to take a walk. 2/3 of these make you look like a slacker when you do them too much, so I always ended up doing a lot of "pretending to work" breaks to refresh my mind. That said, nobody ever had a problem with my performance.

Now I can pop out and walk around the block in 10 minutes, or wander into my back yard. I can do manual chores and intersperse them with knowledge work to give myself a break. I also don't have to commute for 2 hours each day. This means I have more time and willpower and actually get more done. I actually measure every minute of focused work, which is how I know.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#505
Really looking forward to this blowing up in Apple's and other companies' faces...potentially some ADA lawsuits as well. The door has been opened and there's no going back and tech workers know their worth more so than minimum wage workers, and those companies are already whining and bitching about how people "don't want to work anymore because of unemployment" etc. Popcorn time :)

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#506
post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

> I often do/did paired programming, and over-the-shoulder code reviews. These are easier in person I work 100% remote and recently have been mentoring a recent CS graduate and doing pair programming with him. Let me describe how we do it and then I'd like to hear how you think things are better in person. We start a Slack voice call, these work reliably. Some coworkers told me the longest Slack call they have mainta…

That's a nice picture of what it can be like.

VR might take this kind of thing to a whole new level. Check out Imersed: https://www.oculus.com/experiences/quest/2849273531812512/

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The food/drink part could be the most of it. A Google employee enjoying free food and drink could save $60/day versus buying prepared food ($10 for breakfast, $20 for lunch, and $30 for dinner). If you drink much coffee or other beverages, that could be another $15/day. If you weigh this against spending an extra hour or two commuting, then it looks like a lousy bargain. But if you are like many people, and ended up…

$60? Wow, happy to not be in the US. I'd say I spend <$10 a day on food with good quality organic local ingredients.

Not everyone spends that much. If have to guess that most people don't. I'm in the US, and spend less than half that much to feed a family and we don't eat cheap, boxed junk.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#508
post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The majority of people just want to earn some money and do it as easily as possible. That's true, and I don't blame anyone for that. However, I don't think one should expect to enjoy all of the benefits of an extremely high performing company (i.e., RSUs of great value, high pay, prestige, etc.) if they approach work in this way. It sounds very entitled to say "I'm just here for the paycheck" but expect all of the…

I philosophically agree with your comment, but honestly my income over the past 20 years hasn't really followed what you're saying in any meaningful way. I've had places I didn't work very hard that paid me a ton, and places I worked like crazy and made little. In my experience, the factor that matters far more than anything else is the prevailing economy and, really, the stock market.

Agree, most of it is luck.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#509
post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

$200-$300k less to buy a house that is "outside commute range" of tech companies in the Seattle area.

~90 minutes of commute saved each day (2 hours a day for me actually), valuing my time at $100/hr.

That comes out to roughly 5k-6k a month in savings.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#510
I don't work for Apple anymore (and only worked for the corporate side for a short period), but this does not surprise me. They've never been a company very accepting of remote work.

My current company strongly encouraged WFH during the pandemic and happily is currently set to maintain it as an equivalent choice even after full vaccination. I would seriously consider switching companies otherwise - there are benefits to being in an office, but I can't think of any that outweigh 1h+ commute per day :-/

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