New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary • Hacker News Board

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#501

Post by papabrown » Sat, Apr 08, 2017, 8:25 AM UTC

product50 wrote: post #492

vkou wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My first job paid me $25,000 CAD a year. My next job paid me $90,000 CAD a year. (Investment bank) My next job paid me $160,000 USD a year. (Google) All numbers are all-in comp. All junior dev roles. Should the bank, and Google have offered me $33,000 and $40,000, so that the new salary isn't too much higher then the old one? Would that satisfy your notion of fairness? When new grads hired by the latter are getting p…

What if you are current job pays you $400k? In that doesn't it advantage you to talk about your current salary to set an anchor? Also, it helps you avoid jobs/positions who are way below that number.

If your current job pays $400K they are either grossly overpaying or you are in a very narrow band of people in your field and you probably should not be taking too many interviews with people who do not already know what they should be prepared to pay.

People at $400K a year don't apply for a job, they're recruited. Any of the problems mentioned in this thread would likely not apply.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

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Post by corin_ » Sat, Apr 08, 2017, 9:09 AM UTC

curun1r wrote: post #494

infinite8s wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure companies know how much other similar companies are paying?

Yes. I managed a team and had to hire many people. My company provided me with a mountain of data that was broken down by location, job title and years of experience. The data was pretty accurate, at least for San Francisco, but I have no way of knowing if the other locations were correct. Two stupid things on their part...I got headcount, not a budget. So when negotiating salary, it wasn't in my best interest to hag…

Maybe your company also wanted their staff to be happy, like you did - is it only stupid for them to do it, but not you?

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#503

Post by raarts » Sat, Apr 08, 2017, 9:43 AM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #400

sqeaky wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people, yourself included, insist on taking simple sides on complex issues? There is no one size fits all to negotiations, there are simply too many. I would be hesitant to even apply some kind of 80/20 rule here. There are many kinds of negotiations and not all follow the same pattern, even if all of them in one person's experience have. I have succeeded when demanding they present a number and when presentin…

>>I have succeeded when demanding they present a number and when presenting a number. You can do this if you have a lot of leverage. But if you don't -- and most job seekers don't -- then giving a number first will put you at a disadvantage because it reveals how much you think you are worth and simply gives the other side a starting point from which to bring down the price.

So if you make the other party go first they will come up with a very low number forcing you to put effort into talking it up. And that is better because??

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#504

Post by throwaway_374 » Sat, Apr 08, 2017, 10:17 AM UTC

matwood wrote: post #451

tbomb wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At a previous company I found an internal excel document with everyone's salary, from the CEO down to his assistant. On the doc my salary was inflated ~25K to what my actual gross was, I can only assume these perks/benefits were included on top of the salary. But it shows they see that on paper that's how they saw my salary hit. I think it would be wise to include these in your previous "salary". I never did find any…

There is a fully loaded cost for an employee. It includes the salary, the companies portion of taxes, benefits, etc... The employee may not know those numbers exactly, but the employer must because that is real cash leaving the door every month.

True, and on the flip side many employees don't factor this in when asking for salary raises and negotiations. A $20K bump is viewed as a fraction of your "fully loaded cost" as opposed to your base salary which you will be benchmarking against.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

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Post by chrisbennet » Sat, Apr 08, 2017, 11:15 AM UTC

socalnate1 wrote: post #409

paulcole wrote: post #4

Good. Not enough people realize the best way to answer this question is with a straight-up lie.

It's depressing to me how many responses there are on this, without anyone simply saying: "Lying is wrong" I know there are a lot of purely utilitarian thinkers around here, but is there no moral compass at all?

I am also surprised at how many responses are "Well, just lie". Maybe having integrity is old fashioned? I never lied about my salary - it wouldn't have even crossed my mind to do so.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

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Post by user5994461 » Sat, Apr 08, 2017, 12:20 PM UTC

lloydde wrote: post #482

user5994461 wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By giving a number first, you're either too high and you won't have an opportunity to sell yourself, you're too low and you've literally already negotiated against yourself, or you're lucky and right at their expectation, which you could have gotten to by simply not giving the first number. And that's why salary is a binary search! https://thehftguy.com/2017/01/23/career-advice-and-salary-ne...

"Basically, you need to perform a binary search. When you get an offer, you know that you can get at least that. Then you repeat the process a bit higher." https://thehftguy.com/2017/01/23/career-advice-and-salary-ne... Except that isn't a binary search.

It's not a perfect binary search. Not all companies have the same top number and you're not equally valuable everywhere.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#507

Post by namlem » Sat, Apr 08, 2017, 1:28 PM UTC

gregmac wrote: post #391

wcummings wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The people I know who are like this are what I'd describe as "9-5" employees, don't learn anything outside of work So, you just don't hire people with kids, medical problems or other responsibilities outside of work? If you want people to bone up give them time during the work day, have sr. devs run workshops on new tech you're adopting. Don't create the expectation people should work in their time off. If you want…

> Don't create the expectation people should work in their time off. I have no such expectation, nor did I say people should work in their time off. I think people need to keep up their education. Learning doesn't stop when you graduate. Your company should be willing to pay for training/courses/conferences, but I also think people that are passionate about things will naturally grow on their own. At the least, this…

I think you are dramatically overestimating the amount of waste that results from context switching.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#508

Post by wlonkly » Sat, Apr 08, 2017, 2:50 PM UTC

haikuginger wrote: post #489

clavalle wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a bit strange. It's like buying milk. I couldn't tell you exactly how much I could buy a gallon of milk for right now (without looking it up). But I could tell you that it is for around five or six dollars. I could also tell you that organic milk is a bit more and the store brand is a bit less. I could also tell you it is likely to be a bit more in a small, boutique store than a large chain store and cost a bi…

...where are you buying milk? $2.59/gallon here in the Boston metro.

Organic brand from a small milk boutique in Manhattan, apparently.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#509

Post by nunez » Sat, Apr 08, 2017, 4:30 PM UTC

peripitea wrote: post #422

pmoriarty wrote: post #43

I never answer questions about my past or expected salary, not to employers and not to recruiters. Most employers don't ask, and the few that have (perhaps by having a part of an employment form ask for previous salary) have never made my leaving that information out an issue. Most recruiters, if they even ask, respect my decision not to talk about it, but I've been pressed hard on this by a handful of recruiters, an…

I've found it easier to just lie in these situations by giving a number that's significantly higher than what I'm currently making, and more in line with the top end of what I think they're willing to pay me/what I would be willing to work for. It has worked quite well for me. Obviously this only works if you are comfortable lying in this scenario. I don't normally like to lie, but I see no moral issue with it in a s…

There is no need to lie. Also, it can set you up for failure if that info comes back during a background check. Just say how much you want up front.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#510

Post by lloydde » Sat, Apr 08, 2017, 4:42 PM UTC

user5994461 wrote: post #506

lloydde wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Basically, you need to perform a binary search. When you get an offer, you know that you can get at least that. Then you repeat the process a bit higher." https://thehftguy.com/2017/01/23/career-advice-and-salary-ne... Except that isn't a binary search.

It's not a perfect binary search. Not all companies have the same top number and you're not equally valuable everywhere.

It doesn't seem to be a binary search in any sense of the computer science term. There is no half interval mechanics nor would that be appropriate. It seems like traditional bargaining.

In an otherwise excellent article, the missing negotiation calibration and example is glaring. The rest of the article would seem to suggest just as you will get your next big promotion from another company, if you find yourself considering coming down walk away. The heart of the approach is getting away from you becoming invested in being hired by a specific company.