New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary • Hacker News Board

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#331

Post by OJFord » Fri, Apr 07, 2017, 6:28 PM UTC

pmoriarty wrote: post #43

I never answer questions about my past or expected salary, not to employers and not to recruiters. Most employers don't ask, and the few that have (perhaps by having a part of an employment form ask for previous salary) have never made my leaving that information out an issue. Most recruiters, if they even ask, respect my decision not to talk about it, but I've been pressed hard on this by a handful of recruiters, an…

> Most employers don't ask

In the UK, they don't need to.

> It's great that NYC is taking the lead on this, and I really hope the rest of the US follows suit.

There's a lot of positive remarks in this thread, that I don't really understand. I see the advantage if your current salary is unusually low, but it cuts both ways: without knowledge of the company, (and within an industry) salary contains more information than job title.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#332

Post by mahyarm » Fri, Apr 07, 2017, 6:30 PM UTC

sitkack wrote: post #176

pmoriarty wrote: post #43

I never answer questions about my past or expected salary, not to employers and not to recruiters. Most employers don't ask, and the few that have (perhaps by having a part of an employment form ask for previous salary) have never made my leaving that information out an issue. Most recruiters, if they even ask, respect my decision not to talk about it, but I've been pressed hard on this by a handful of recruiters, an…

Both Google and Oracle made it a condition of getting hired. Meaning they were ready to walk away if previous pay wasn't disclosed. Oracle even wanted scans of W2s ...

Is that after or before you have a finalized offer in your hands?

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#333

Post by vonmoltke » Fri, Apr 07, 2017, 6:32 PM UTC

komali2 wrote: post #310

mdb333 wrote: post #289

It will be interesting to see how this affects the hiring markets. Out in SF/etc it came up in just about every discussion I had last time I was looking for work usually as part of the first phase. No point interviewing candidates that wouldn't accept the job. It's pretty much a risk mgmt exercise from the hiring side. Similarly, I always asked what the compensation range they're targeting is as I don't want to waste…

In my experience (external contract recruitment) the background check usually happens after an offer has been negotiated and accepted. I've also never seen a background check request for actual salary information. I'm not even sure how that would work... we would just send the candidates' information to this company that churns through court docs to see if they have a criminal history, send them to Quest to get drug…

I was asked in my last background check, and the proof (of that and employment) was my tax forms.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#334

Post by foota » Fri, Apr 07, 2017, 6:34 PM UTC

OJFord wrote: post #331

pmoriarty wrote: post #43

I never answer questions about my past or expected salary, not to employers and not to recruiters. Most employers don't ask, and the few that have (perhaps by having a part of an employment form ask for previous salary) have never made my leaving that information out an issue. Most recruiters, if they even ask, respect my decision not to talk about it, but I've been pressed hard on this by a handful of recruiters, an…

> Most employers don't ask In the UK, they don't need to. > It's great that NYC is taking the lead on this, and I really hope the rest of the US follows suit. There's a lot of positive remarks in this thread, that I don't really understand. I see the advantage if your current salary is unusually low, but it cuts both ways: without knowledge of the company, (and within an industry) salary contains more information tha…

I think part of the idea is that you still have the option to use your current salary as part of negotiation. If they make you a low offer just come back with "I make X right now, you need to at least match that".

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#335

Post by riskable » Fri, Apr 07, 2017, 6:41 PM UTC

Whenever I'm asked for my current or former salary I tell the recruiter/HR person to first tell me the salary of all the peers I'll be working with. If it's a contracting company I also ask how much they'll be paid for my position.

If they don't provide those money details why should I?

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#336

Post by riskable » Fri, Apr 07, 2017, 6:41 PM UTC

Whenever I'm asked for my current or former salary I tell the recruiter/HR person to first tell me the salary of all the peers I'll be working with. If it's a contracting company I also ask how much they'll be paid for my position.

If they don't provide those money details why should I?

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#337

Post by pc86 » Fri, Apr 07, 2017, 6:43 PM UTC

komali2 wrote: post #300

pc86 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why we publish salary ranges with our job ads but also require a desired salary within that range from candidates.

Problem is even with that I would wait for an offer from your company before saying a number, and then I would ask for more, because over the course of my career this has enabled me to consistently be paid more than average. So your "maximum" would be my minimum, and if I were to work there, I'd want more. Maybe that means I don't work there, that's fine, but it'll work somewhere else, eventually!

> So your "maximum" would be my minimum, and if I were to work there, I'd want more.

Oh, the "I better be the most well-compensated person on the team or I'm going to get upset" mentality. If our strategy weeds those folks out, all the better.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#338

Post by callmeed » Fri, Apr 07, 2017, 6:44 PM UTC

pmoriarty wrote: post #43

I never answer questions about my past or expected salary, not to employers and not to recruiters. Most employers don't ask, and the few that have (perhaps by having a part of an employment form ask for previous salary) have never made my leaving that information out an issue. Most recruiters, if they even ask, respect my decision not to talk about it, but I've been pressed hard on this by a handful of recruiters, an…

If you don't mind me asking, what's your reservation with revealing it?

Is it more of a privacy/principle? Or do you actually lose an edge in salary negotiations by revealing it?

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#339

Post by Pyxl101 » Fri, Apr 07, 2017, 6:46 PM UTC

komali2 wrote: post #298

louisswiss wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree with you in principle (your previous deal with company A is absolutely none of company B's business) but I would like to challenge you on one point: > I'm placed at a disadvantage in negotiations if I name a number first. ... This is unlikely to be true. Generally, in price negotiations it is advantageous to name a number first. This is known as anchoring and basically the theory is that the end result is bette…

I think you're confusing two sales concepts - first to talk, and anchoring. Anchoring is a more general marketing concept that works well in advertisements (crossing out a black $280 and putting a red $100 underneath it). Anchoring doesn't work so well for something much more fluid (and with much more at stake) such as a salary negotiation. In-person sales meetings (which is what an interview is, for both sides) are…

Completely agree that giving previous comp information or comp expectations can only hurt you as an employee. The only thing giving this information will do is provide a company the information they need to pay you less than they might have otherwise.

I think it is difficult for employees to judge what they're truly worth. Therefore, when most people give a number, that number will be lower than what an employer may be willing to pay (and perhaps lower than the company's initial offer would be). I would guess this holds doubly true for graduates of a bootcamp, or recent college graduates, who have less industry experience on which to base their judgment of business value.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#340

Post by sqeaky » Fri, Apr 07, 2017, 6:46 PM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #162

VT_Drew wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Generally, in price negotiations it is advantageous to name a number first. This is absolutely 100% wrong. In price negotiations you will almost always fair better if you force the other party to bring up a number first.

Exactly. Whoever names a number first puts themselves at a significant disadvantage.

Why do people, yourself included, insist on taking simple sides on complex issues?

There is no one size fits all to negotiations, there are simply too many. I would be hesitant to even apply some kind of 80/20 rule here. There are many kinds of negotiations and not all follow the same pattern, even if all of them in one person's experience have.

I have succeeded when demanding they present a number and when presenting a number. I think there are other important things in negotiations like how numbers are presented and what else is being exchanged, but I do not have good sources for this last bit outside my own experience.