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New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

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Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#351

Post by stale2002 »

j2bax wrote: post #320
krenden9 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because deceit runs through my soul and my heart is as black as damask cloth. The fact that I want to be paid what I feel I should and can be paid has no bearing on my performance and attitude at work. If you were to speak to any of my past employers, they would probably use the same sideways compliment my high school calc teacher wrote on a college recommendation: "brilliant, but like lightning in a bottle." Yo…

Honesty and integrity are pretty high on the list of qualities I like in people I associate and work with. The fact that you would conspire with your previous employer to artificially prop your value up and then tell a bold faced lie in an interview, does make it seem like you are not above doing whatever it takes to get what YOU want and feel you deserve.

It is not propping up your value.

If you interview someone and they ask for X, and you agree to hire them for X, then you have made the decision that he is worth X.

That fact that he did not make X at his last job should have zero effect on his future job.

If you do not think he is worth X, then don't hire him. He is either worth X or not.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#352

Post by metaphorm »

southphillyman wrote: post #41

They are trying to pass this in Philadelphia in May. Comcast and the local Chamber of Commerce are suing to stop it citing that it's a Freedom of Speech violation. Besides being able to freely low ball candidates who started behind the 8 ball (women/minorities/people who didn't go to elite schools), is there a real argument for companies HAVING to know your previous salary?

> Comcast and the local Chamber of Commerce are suing to stop it citing that it's a Freedom of Speech violation.

that's gonna be a hard case to make. freedom of speech is typically your right to say something that you want to say which is not at all the same as compelling someone else to say something they would rather not.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#353

Post by wcummings »

gregmac wrote: post #188
jnwatson wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. An additional argument for lying is that you're probably already lying in other parts of the interview. Why do you want to work here? (money, and the desire to pay the bills and feed my children) Where do you see yourself in 5 years? (probably not at this company) What is your biggest weakness? (not like I would actually tell a stranger a real answer)

If these are honestly your answers to these questions and you in fact give lies as answers, you sound like exactly the type of person I absolutely hate working with and actively try to weed out during interviewing. To anyone reading this new to the industry, there are absolutely legitimate ways to answer these questions without lying. > Why do you want to work here? (money, and the desire to pay the bills and feed my…

>The people I know who are like this are what I'd describe as "9-5" employees, don't learn anything outside of work

So, you just don't hire people with kids, medical problems or other responsibilities outside of work? If you want people to bone up give them time during the work day, have sr. devs run workshops on new tech you're adopting. Don't create the expectation people should work in their time off. If you want effective employees you should invest in that and not shove the cost onto the individual.

Even if it produces the results you'd (which is pretty questionable) like these kind of criteria have obvious and well-known biases.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#354

Post by sqeaky »

denzil_correa wrote: post #277
gregmac wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If these are honestly your answers to these questions and you in fact give lies as answers, you sound like exactly the type of person I absolutely hate working with and actively try to weed out during interviewing. To anyone reading this new to the industry, there are absolutely legitimate ways to answer these questions without lying. > Why do you want to work here? (money, and the desire to pay the bills and feed my…

> The people I know who are like this are what I'd describe as "9-5" employees, don't learn anything outside of work, and basically do the bare minimum at everything. What's wrong being a 9-5 employee?

From your perspective or the company's perspective?

From the company's perspective an unmotivated 9-5 employee not as good of a hire as one who deeply enjoys the work subject and actively learns about it on their own.

From your perspective reduced job security because you probably don't perform at the level of someone internally motivated.

Even if that is not true there are enough of these sentiments floating around to affect decisions.

EDIT - If you disagree, a well worded comment carries more weight than a downvote and avoiding the discussion.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#355

Post by wcummings »

denzil_correa wrote: post #277
gregmac wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If these are honestly your answers to these questions and you in fact give lies as answers, you sound like exactly the type of person I absolutely hate working with and actively try to weed out during interviewing. To anyone reading this new to the industry, there are absolutely legitimate ways to answer these questions without lying. > Why do you want to work here? (money, and the desire to pay the bills and feed my…

> The people I know who are like this are what I'd describe as "9-5" employees, don't learn anything outside of work, and basically do the bare minimum at everything. What's wrong being a 9-5 employee?

They only work 9-5, duh! /s

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#357

Post by imsofuture »

vkou wrote: post #293
imsofuture wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pricing yourself out of a job with an organization that uses salary as an first-line filter is maybe not the worst thing in the world. There are a lot of bad jobs in the world, you should be happy to turn down or be turned down by many jobs that you apply to. It's kind of a sad cultural trope that the employee is desperate for a 'yes' at every job they apply for, when that is often not true at all.

> Pricing yourself out of a job with an organization that uses salary as an first-line filter is maybe not the worst thing in the world. "They try to filter people by salary" is not at the top of my list of reasons for why I wouldn't want to work somewhere. It's a reason, but it is dwarfed by many other ones.

I don't mean to imply that it's a primary filter of mine either, or even something I would attempt to find out to base my decision on. However, if a company makes a decision that we aren't compatible early on, they're probably right, for both of our benefit. That holds even more true the dumber the reason is.

It's an absurd example, but let's say you don't get hired because the hiring manager thinks your shirt is super ugly. That's insane and obviously completely improper and irrelevant -- but you're probably better off not getting that job!

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#358

Post by sqeaky »

jimparkins wrote: post #20

Have a google for: "can i lie to a employer about past salary" - it really really messes with people - people feel super uncertain about how to approach this situation. Throwing any confidence they have during the negotiation out the window. Even now I hesitate to write this as a million people will come out and say never lie - what if they found out. More than banning. There needs to be acceptance that if someone as…

I find it interesting that you find it OK to lie in sales situation.

I'll not be doing business with you. Just as I don't with the skeezy used car salesmen you seek to emulate.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#359

Post by s73ver »

lend000 wrote: post #184

There's a case to be made for an employee protection preventing an employer from firing an employee for refusing to produce pay stubs from a past employer. However, I've said it before -- preventing a question from being asked is state overreach and constitutes a violation of the first amendment, in my opinion.

If we want to prevent discrimination based on the answer, then why should we allow the question to be asked? In that case, those that either are new and lack experience, or don't feel they have a strong enough position to say no to answering are still going to feel the negative effects of it. Ban the question entirely, and everyone is equally protected.

Re: New York City bans employers from asking potential workers about past salary

#360

Post by s73ver »

jondubois wrote: post #163

I think this law is silly. If you don't like this question, then you can either choose not to answer it or use it to your advantage by 'rounding up' your numbers - This should actually help you with your negotiations as an employee. In the unlikely event that they ask for proof, you can always tell them that your personal finances are a private matter between you and your accountant.

Not really. Someone who is not in a strong bargaining position is not going to be able to push back and say no. The company will say, "Answer or we don't hire you." And while you might say "You don't want to work there anyway," I know I like being able to buy food and pay rent much more than I like not being hired. By banning the question outright, they make sure that your ability to not answer the question is not related to the strength of your bargaining position.
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