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European digital ID wallets rely on safety services of Google and Apple

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Re: European digital ID wallets rely on safety services of Google and Apple

#51

Post by doikor »

Chu4eeno wrote: post #24
podgorniy wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't monopolies is what we end up by default if have no regulation at all? And yes, not every regulation destroys monopoly, but regulation is the only thing that could break one.

Are there any examples of monopolies being (successfully) broken up in Europe? Or do you posit that regulation stop them from forming?

Pre WW2 Europe was full of (state backed) cartels and monopolies. These were dismantled for the most part.

A lot of these were international. Just read up on "Cartel capitalism".

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/enterprise-and-socie...

The European Steel and Coal Community (precursor of the EU) was also involved in the effort to stop these. In general this has been something the EU has been involved in since its inception and the best action against monopolies is to not let them form in the first place (why there is so few of them in general in most developed countries. Though that is now slowly changing it seems)

Re: European digital ID wallets rely on safety services of Google and Apple

#52

Post by [deleted] »

nickslaughter02 wrote: post #12

Working as intended. EU wants you to use a device and OS they can fully control. Don't comply with some new ridiculous regulation? Your app will be banned. > EU App Store: Apple Removes Thousands of Apps Due to Digital Services Act Requirements > Apple’s app removals follow the Digital Services Act, a European law requiring all app traders to display verified contact details, including address, email, and phone numbe…

[deleted]

Re: European digital ID wallets rely on safety services of Google and Apple

#53

Post by ExoticPearTree »

cjrp wrote: post #37
VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe will never have digital sovereignty from the US. It will take 100 years and an extremely expensive, government-mandated reimplementation of every critical US tech service and company. No EU country is putting up budget for this, and no private enterprise is going to do it because building a worse version of AWS just so that it is "European" makes no financial sense and would most likely just fail anyway.

> building a worse version of AWS just so that it is "European" makes no financial sense Unless it becomes necessary because of EU regulation?

Hopefully not. This hate towards good technology and innovation because you don’t like the current president is ridiculous. He’ll be gone in two years or so and then we’ll get back to normal.

Re: European digital ID wallets rely on safety services of Google and Apple

#54

Post by ulrikrasmussen »

Even relying on Android's hardware attestation API instead of Play Integrity is an attack on digital autonomy in my opinion. Any security feature which relies on remote attestation of the users entire platform is government overreach as it ultimately gives the government the power to choose what operating systems are acceptable. It is only a matter of time before this power will be misused to put pressure on OS developers to install backdoors for the intelligence agencies. And no, asking people to own two smartphones is not a solution to this problem.

Anonymous digital age verification based on a suitable ZKP scheme and/or blind signatures does not require a general purpose operating system, it just requires a few cryptographic primitives and a set of device-bound keys. It is not too much to ask that the EU develops a specialized hardware token with these exact capabilities and offer them for free to all citizens as an alternative to the app. This also gives the citizens of EU the freedom to choose not to own a smartphone without having their access to digital services severely restricted.

Re: European digital ID wallets rely on safety services of Google and Apple

#55

Post by preisschild »

welhoilija wrote: post #14

Time to reach out to your MEP's! I would imagine the id could web-based for example which would make it much less dependent on the Google's or Apple's "SAFETY" services.

You can just continue using native apps, just dont include / depend on proprietary attestation APIs such as safetynet

Re: European digital ID wallets rely on safety services of Google and Apple

#56

Post by maybewhenthesun »

philipallstar wrote: post #35
throwwwll wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Spoken like a true 120-year who trusts blindly everything he hears online from Rothbard This ad hominem stuff is genuinely worthless.

I don't think so. Because the theories about elastic markets and monopolies do have a high 'spherical frictionless cow` smell. And they are posed here as gospel. So while it might be a bit of an ad hominem to frame someone as a 120 year old it does succinctly point out a problem and hence adds information.

Re: European digital ID wallets rely on safety services of Google and Apple

#57

Post by J-Kuhn »

Sarcastic view: Doesn't matter - the EU wont listen, then pull a surprised pikachu and make laws to force googles play integrity to attest that other devices are genuine, because obviously, the problem is google, not stupid design decisions made while creating the app.

Re: European digital ID wallets rely on safety services of Google and Apple

#58

Post by maybewhenthesun »

nba456_ wrote: post #21
podgorniy wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't monopolies is what we end up by default if have no regulation at all? And yes, not every regulation destroys monopoly, but regulation is the only thing that could break one.

> Aren't monopolies is what we end up by default if have no regulation at all? No.

19th century begs to differ.

A better answer would be 'not always'.

The proposed regulations forcing everybody to use google or apple are ridiculous and very much the opposite of the kind of regulations we need though...

Re: European digital ID wallets rely on safety services of Google and Apple

#59

Post by trollbridge »

sneak wrote: post #8
petcat wrote: post #4

A European digital ID system that is entirely dependent on 2 US companies. Wasn't there some talk about the pressing need for European digital sovereignty recently? Or was that just performative nonsense?

The US can call Austria in 5 minutes and with no burden of proof get the airspace permit for a head of sovereign state revoked and the plane swatted instantly upon landing, because someone might have been on board (he wasn’t) whose only real crime was embarrassing the USA by exposing their fundamentally unconstitutional lawbreaking. Same goes with the prosecutors in Sweden; a phone call and the US got, not charges (a…

What they're thinking is that they really don't want to be playing Russia's stupid games.

Re: European digital ID wallets rely on safety services of Google and Apple

#60

Post by sam_lowry_ »

peterspath wrote: post #43

They should not make it mandatory for or expect people to have a smartphone.

A few years ago as I was working for a local government, a similar discussion started, but quickly finished after the project owner valiantly displayed her dumbphone.

Only months later did I learn that her husband was investigated for misappropriation of funds, so keeping a minimal digital footprint was important for her.

Moral of the story: everyone has a smartphone.

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