Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

European digital ID wallets rely on safety services of Google and Apple

waag.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 327 posts

Re: European digital ID wallets rely on safety services of Google and Apple

#31

Post by throwwwll »

Arkhaine_kupo wrote: post #22
podgorniy wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't monopolies is what we end up by default if have no regulation at all? And yes, not every regulation destroys monopoly, but regulation is the only thing that could break one.

> Aren't monopolies is what we end up by default if have no regulation at all? No. Monopolies are only inevitable if the goods aren't elastic, if there is a large cost of entry into the market, or if its a market you can create a moat that is unsurmountable. Many markets don't have that even with 0 regulation, but might have second order problems like firms creating unsafe products for example. But in general regulat…

[flagged]

Re: European digital ID wallets rely on safety services of Google and Apple

#33

Post by sscaryterry »

clarionbell wrote: post #18
petcat wrote: post #4

A European digital ID system that is entirely dependent on 2 US companies. Wasn't there some talk about the pressing need for European digital sovereignty recently? Or was that just performative nonsense?

Not really. EU is actually trying to decouple. But in many cases there are not any homegrown alternatives to support. There is not a single company in EU that could replace, even a considerable part, of software stack provided by Google and Apple. And, unless the regulatory environment changes., there probably never will be.

This is simply untrue. The tech is there, the will (money) isn't.

Re: European digital ID wallets rely on safety services of Google and Apple

#35

Post by philipallstar »

throwwwll wrote: post #31
Arkhaine_kupo wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Aren't monopolies is what we end up by default if have no regulation at all? No. Monopolies are only inevitable if the goods aren't elastic, if there is a large cost of entry into the market, or if its a market you can create a moat that is unsurmountable. Many markets don't have that even with 0 regulation, but might have second order problems like firms creating unsafe products for example. But in general regulat…

[flagged]

> Spoken like a true 120-year who trusts blindly everything he hears online from Rothbard

This ad hominem stuff is genuinely worthless.

Re: European digital ID wallets rely on safety services of Google and Apple

#36

Post by Luker88 »

The EU reference for wallets strictly required google play services https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/eudi-app-andro...

So Italy's IO app https://github.com/pagopa/io-app (wallet, documents, age verification) continuously refuses the users' request for GrapheneOS support and requires google.

Nothing will change until the lawsuits start coming in.

The only hope is the motorola/grapheneOS collaboration and consumer associations, that might sue for anticompetitive behavior.

Make noise on any channel for the apps that require play services, it will help in the future if the lawsuits start, since it will show user support for the initiative.

Re: European digital ID wallets rely on safety services of Google and Apple

#37

Post by cjrp »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #15
petcat wrote: post #4

A European digital ID system that is entirely dependent on 2 US companies. Wasn't there some talk about the pressing need for European digital sovereignty recently? Or was that just performative nonsense?

Europe will never have digital sovereignty from the US. It will take 100 years and an extremely expensive, government-mandated reimplementation of every critical US tech service and company. No EU country is putting up budget for this, and no private enterprise is going to do it because building a worse version of AWS just so that it is "European" makes no financial sense and would most likely just fail anyway.

> building a worse version of AWS just so that it is "European" makes no financial sense

Unless it becomes necessary because of EU regulation?

Re: European digital ID wallets rely on safety services of Google and Apple

#38

Post by shaan7 »

phyzix5761 wrote: post #5

Regulations create monopolies. Even when regulations are aimed at curbing the control of giants, smaller players usually can't afford them and lose market share. This is actually taught as a competitive advantage strategy in business school. Corporations lobby the government to implement laws that seem to hurt them but in actuality create an uneven playing field where marketshare becomes available due to the higher i…

> Corporations lobby the government to implement laws that seem to hurt them but in actuality create an uneven playing field where marketshare becomes available due to the higher implementation cost

(nit: I assume you meant "marketshare becomes unavailable")

So you mean that regulations that are created based on lobbying by corporations help them become monopolies? Sure, that makes sense. But thats different from a blanket "Regulations create monopolies".

Re: European digital ID wallets rely on safety services of Google and Apple

#39

Post by raverbashing »

Chu4eeno wrote: post #24
podgorniy wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't monopolies is what we end up by default if have no regulation at all? And yes, not every regulation destroys monopoly, but regulation is the only thing that could break one.

Are there any examples of monopolies being (successfully) broken up in Europe? Or do you posit that regulation stop them from forming?

Look into the mechanisms being worked on to create competition in rail operators (which has been opening the markets to competitor rail operators)

Re: European digital ID wallets rely on safety services of Google and Apple

#40

Post by realusername »

clarionbell wrote: post #18
petcat wrote: post #4

A European digital ID system that is entirely dependent on 2 US companies. Wasn't there some talk about the pressing need for European digital sovereignty recently? Or was that just performative nonsense?

Not really. EU is actually trying to decouple. But in many cases there are not any homegrown alternatives to support. There is not a single company in EU that could replace, even a considerable part, of software stack provided by Google and Apple. And, unless the regulatory environment changes., there probably never will be.

How much money did the EU finance towards alternatives last year then?

I hear them complaining but for now, the alternatives are mostly run by hobbyists.

We're starting from so low that even a few dozen millions would help a lot.

Post reply on HN