The Collapse Is Coming. Will Humanity Adapt? • Hacker News Board

Re: The Collapse Is Coming. Will Humanity Adapt?

#51

Post by croes » Sun, Jun 02, 2024, 4:35 PM UTC

paulbaumgart wrote: post #13

croes wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had the technology to prevent climate change for a few billion dollar per year. Didn't happen.

Do you have any evidence to support this claim? The availability of economically competitive alternatives to fossil fuels (like cheap solar + batteries) is a very recent development.

You are moving goal posts.

We are talking about technology as such not necessarily economically competitive.

I wouldn't consider the technology of solar engineering mentioned in your link economically competitive either.

Doable but not cheap.

The same is true for the technology to prevent climate change. It exists but it was expensive.

Interestingly, it's still expensive now because even though the basic technology is cheaper, the timeframe is much shorter, so we have to achieve more in less time than if we had started earlier.

Re: The Collapse Is Coming. Will Humanity Adapt?

#52

Post by croes » Sun, Jun 02, 2024, 4:36 PM UTC

janice1999 wrote: post #34

bdangubic wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as always, just follow the money… once effects of climate change become more expensive than solving the problem, the problem will be solved :)

Once the effects of climate change become too expensive or inconvenient for the ruling class you mean, which might be never since they are really good at shielding themselves from consequences.

Many are old enough to die before the severe effects could hit them.

Re: The Collapse Is Coming. Will Humanity Adapt?

#53

Post by Earw0rm » Sun, Jun 02, 2024, 5:39 PM UTC

richrichie wrote: post #41

n4ture wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to educate yourself some more my friend. You could start with the latest IPCC report's summary. Green cover won't tell you much about loss of insects, marine wildlife, microorganism in the soil, etc... Also I'd be interested in which specific metric you speak about when talking about humans being better off and which studies you are refering too. You'll reckon that if you don't even trust a widespread scient…

Let’s say there has indeed been loss of insect life for the sake of argument due to “climate change” on account of human activity and that the knob can be turned back by some magical calibration of human activity. As a chief beneficiary of such activity (clearly you are using a modern computing/communication device from a climate controlled space to access a frivolous internet chat forum), why don’t you take responsi…

(We should improve society somewhat.

And yet you participate in society. Curious. I am very intelligent.).gif

Re: The Collapse Is Coming. Will Humanity Adapt?

#54

Post by coffeebeqn » Sun, Jun 02, 2024, 5:46 PM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #44

ffhhj wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> being wrong The last collapse happended to the natives of a whole continent just a few centuries ago by new types of disease. I don't think they expected that, so they didn't need to be wrong, it just happened.

I could make the (true) argument that while this almost (their descendants are still around) happened, all of humanity was not extinguished. But it's an interesting point. While the world never ends, entire peoples and nations do get extinguished with some regularity, and having people around who always look for ways this can happen could serve a credible evolutionary purpose, even though they're almost always wrong.

Their civilization did collapse though. There are different people living on all that land but I don’t think anyone seriously is worried about people or cockroaches going extinct

Re: The Collapse Is Coming. Will Humanity Adapt?

#55

Post by drewcoo » Sun, Jun 02, 2024, 5:50 PM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #10

I've made peace with the fact that a portion of humanity is always convinced the world will end soon. I guess it serves some evolutionary purpose, since it's so deeply ingrained. We've done quite well with these people among us so far, despite them always, since the dawn of humanity, being wrong.

> I guess it serves some evolutionary purpose, since it's so deeply ingrained.

> We've done quite well with these people among us so far, despite them always, since the dawn of humanity, being wrong.

Also known as "a just so story," with nods to Rudyard Kipling. Or, more recently, "evolutionary psychology."

Re: The Collapse Is Coming. Will Humanity Adapt?

#56

Post by corinroyal » Sun, Jun 02, 2024, 6:23 PM UTC

Earw0rm wrote: post #21

subjectsigma wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“De-growth”, like communism, is perfectly logical until you start talking about implementation. Then it starts sounding like A Modest Proposal. Who has to sacrifice? Who isn’t allowed to build, or have kids, or use specific technology? I have this funny suspicion it would end up being poor people

And who ends up paying in a world that doesn't get its act together on sustainability? Hell, who's paying right now? Who's had their country invaded or their political system up-ended to keep cheap oil and cheap goods flowing to the West? I'm not saying degrowthers have all the answers, but any critique should be weighed even-handedly against a realistic view of the shortcomings of what we have now and where it's tak…

Seriously. Poor people in Mexico and India are frying in their homes right now while monkeys drop out of trees.

Re: The Collapse Is Coming. Will Humanity Adapt?

#57

Post by bdangubic » Sun, Jun 02, 2024, 6:46 PM UTC

janice1999 wrote: post #34

bdangubic wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as always, just follow the money… once effects of climate change become more expensive than solving the problem, the problem will be solved :)

Once the effects of climate change become too expensive or inconvenient for the ruling class you mean, which might be never since they are really good at shielding themselves from consequences.

I wholeheartedly agree though am questioning whether shielding will actually work if effects of climate change become dire… not just for the ruling class personally but in the way that made them and keeps them a ruling class.

Re: The Collapse Is Coming. Will Humanity Adapt?

#58

Post by thefz » Sun, Jun 02, 2024, 7:20 PM UTC

paulbaumgart wrote: post #8

To anyone feeling anxious about the future after reading this article: We have the technology to pause the worst effects of climate change indefinitely for a few billion dollars a year: https://news.uchicago.edu/radical-solution-address-climate-c... It’s far from a complete solution, but it works well enough that the future described in the article is much more a dark fantasy than a likely reality.

Keep in mind that 70% of the pollution comes from 100 companies.

We discuss spending more money and taking extreme measures (shall we darken the clouds? bullshit) instead of taxing these fuckers out of existence and calling it a century.

Re: The Collapse Is Coming. Will Humanity Adapt?

#59

Post by thefz » Sun, Jun 02, 2024, 7:31 PM UTC

Rhapso wrote: post #3

PaulHoule wrote: post #2

As logical as it is, I think advocacy of “degrowth” is a sure formula to put the far right in the driver’s seat and anyone who is seriously concerned about survival as forming another ingroup-outgrouo thing needs and answer to that.

"degrowth" is one of those things you don't actually need to believe in, the world will do it for us if we don't do it first. I just want to minimize the collateral damage. If folks refuse, so be it, I did my ethical duty in making sure they were well informed.

> "degrowth" is one of those things you don't actually need to believe in, the world will do it for us if we don't do it first. I just want to minimize the collateral damage.

Worked in OT a long time, an old saying is that you either schedule downtime to perform maintenance or the hardware will gladly do that for you.

It's the same with climate, we either suck the cost of rearranging how we live now or we are going to hit a wall with the foot still down on the gas, expecting constant growth.

Re: The Collapse Is Coming. Will Humanity Adapt?

#60

Post by enteeentee » Sun, Jun 02, 2024, 11:36 PM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #10

I've made peace with the fact that a portion of humanity is always convinced the world will end soon. I guess it serves some evolutionary purpose, since it's so deeply ingrained. We've done quite well with these people among us so far, despite them always, since the dawn of humanity, being wrong.

Pretty much no one is arguing the world is going to end soon. Putting your own interpretation onto arguments. Mostly people are arguing the world is heading into huge sociological, logistical, political,scientific, immigration challenges and god knows what else kinds of problems through climate change.

Sticking your head in the ground and going la la la not happening, it’ll be ok, pretending people are suggesting the end of the world when they aren’t isn’t going to help and that is what people are protesting about.

I’d like to think we’d come up with solutions because I think there is some hope,but comments like this make me lose hope as I think it shows people with no hope or vision for change and improvement.