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DuckDuckGo AI Chat

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Re: DuckDuckGo AI Chat

#51

Post by lxgr »

bevekspldnw wrote: post #43
lxgr wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but it's also the best possible thing until they can run an LLM in your browser (or maybe we figure out how to do homomorphic encryption of neural networks). What else should they call it? I suppose "anonymous" could work (i.e. they only know about you what you tell them).

They could literally run Mixtral or Llama on their own machines and have total control. This is basically a ChatGPT VPN.

What would make their machines more trustworthy than OpenAI's or Anthropic's?

Re: DuckDuckGo AI Chat

#52

Post by thih9 »

maltalex wrote: post #22
danpalmer wrote: post #5

What's the business model on this? GPT3.5 and Claude 1.2 aren't as expensive as other models, but they're not cheap. Is this going to get pulled later, monetised, etc? It's concerning in general to see so many companies throwing so much money at this without business models. The big names mostly have either premium tiers or paid API usage, that's fine, but DDG/Brave/BingChat/Arc/etc are all just giving away money, an…

It'll probably not be free forever. Access to the models could become part of their "Pro" offering - https://duckduckgo.com/pro

As a user I dislike this kind of temporary free products. It feels dishonest and unreliable to me.

Re: DuckDuckGo AI Chat

#53

Post by maltalex »

thih9 wrote: post #52
maltalex wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'll probably not be free forever. Access to the models could become part of their "Pro" offering - https://duckduckgo.com/pro

As a user I dislike this kind of temporary free products. It feels dishonest and unreliable to me.

It's just a theory. I don't know where they're going with this.

Re: DuckDuckGo AI Chat

#54

Post by seplox »

bevekspldnw wrote: post #26
yegg wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See https://duckduckgo.com/aichat/privacy-terms " We do not save or store your Prompts or Outputs. Additionally, all metadata that contains personal information (for example, your IP address) is obfuscated from underlying model providers (for example, OpenAI, Anthropic). If you submit personal information in your Prompts, it may be reproduced in the Outputs, but no one can tell whether it was you personally submittin…

That’s a pretty disingenuous framing. Obviously the content of the communication- what you ask the chatbot - can totally be personally identifiable, and is stored. You aren’t providing communications content privacy, you’re providing a meta data proxy which is not remotely the same.

Or in other words:

If you submit personal information in your Prompts, it may be reproduced in the Outputs, but no one can tell whether it was you personally submitting the Prompts or someone else.

Re: DuckDuckGo AI Chat

#55

Post by lancesells »

yegg wrote: post #20
jrmg wrote: post #9

Being DDG, with its reputation, I’m sure these chats really are never saved - but the wording in the sidebar: never saved by us, and not used to train AI models could make the more paranoid believe that they could be saved by DDG’s partners - from very directly (Anthropic saves chats with Claude) to indirectly (all channeled through a shady arms-length subsidiary).

See https://duckduckgo.com/aichat/privacy-terms " We do not save or store your Prompts or Outputs. Additionally, all metadata that contains personal information (for example, your IP address) is obfuscated from underlying model providers (for example, OpenAI, Anthropic). If you submit personal information in your Prompts, it may be reproduced in the Outputs, but no one can tell whether it was you personally submittin…

> (for example, your IP address) is obfuscated from underlying model providers

> so your personal information (for example, IP address) is not exposed to them

Is this not two different things? The first one saying that the IP address is changed in some way to make it unidentifiable. The second one is saying it's just not sent.

Re: DuckDuckGo AI Chat

#56

Post by Centigonal »

malfist wrote: post #47
yegg wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See https://duckduckgo.com/aichat/privacy-terms " We do not save or store your Prompts or Outputs. Additionally, all metadata that contains personal information (for example, your IP address) is obfuscated from underlying model providers (for example, OpenAI, Anthropic). If you submit personal information in your Prompts, it may be reproduced in the Outputs, but no one can tell whether it was you personally submittin…

This is a "strangely specific denial" Metadata that contains PII is not shared. No mention of just data with PII, i.e. your chats.

They proxy the metadata (e.g. IP addresses) through their own servers. They can't launder the content of the chats.

Re: DuckDuckGo AI Chat

#57

Post by ziddoap »

bevekspldnw wrote: post #41
ziddoap wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a disingenuous take.

Give me another one then? It’s a search engine with no search index. It’s an ads supported site without an ads network. What is it then if not a wrapper?

>DuckDuckGo is an American software company that __offers a number of products__ intended to help people protect their online privacy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DuckDuckGo

Re: DuckDuckGo AI Chat

#58

Post by colesantiago »

fabiofzero wrote: post #50

Most people use DDG to escape the general search enshittification of Google and Bing, so this feels like a very bad idea. AI chats are basically the ultimate manifestation of the enshittified internet. Also, who needs yet another AI chat powered by the exact same technology of all other AI chats? The race to the bottom is already here and the bottom is clearly visible (at least for now – the bottom will fall off even…

Agreed, the fact that DDG AI chat uses Anthropic is a massive red flag.

Anthropic is owned by Google through investments.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/qai/2023/10/31/google-invests-i...

Re: DuckDuckGo AI Chat

#59

Post by yegg »

danpalmer wrote: post #5

What's the business model on this? GPT3.5 and Claude 1.2 aren't as expensive as other models, but they're not cheap. Is this going to get pulled later, monetised, etc? It's concerning in general to see so many companies throwing so much money at this without business models. The big names mostly have either premium tiers or paid API usage, that's fine, but DDG/Brave/BingChat/Arc/etc are all just giving away money, an…

The plan is to maintain free anonymous access to base models, with eventually search better integrated as well. We'd also like to experiment with providing anonymous access to more cutting-edge models as part of Privacy Pro.

Re: DuckDuckGo AI Chat

#60

Post by JAlexoid »

ricardo81 wrote: post #45
JAlexoid wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The privacy comes from the lack of tracking your interests and tailoring the search results to the preexisting interests. They just don't collect the private data in the first place.

That's one way of looking at it. Another way is that your PII like your IP hitting a MS server and searches being returned for that searcher are heavily correlated. They can't serve results like https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ftsa&q=shops+near+me&ia=web and return shops within miles of me without passing that info on. IIRC they pass the /24 of your IP, but all the same, not much better.

No, your IP is not "you". It's most definitely not your PII, per se. It is PII when used in conjunction with other data(even under fairly strict GPDR rules).

The party storing the IP must have means of associating that IP with you, not simply "a city".

I mean... I can write an anonymous letter, drop it into the mailbox of my local post office and there will be a stamp of where and when that letter was mailed from. Is a post office stamp now my personal information?

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