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Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

reuters.com

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Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#51

And now "crypto" bros are moving to AI. The never ending story.

AI is not in the same category in my book. Both may be overhyped in some ways, but blockchain technology was fundamentally a bad idea with no legitimate use cases.

Bitcoin has proven to be an inflation resistant store of value enabling private and fast transactions to anywhere in the world - seems pretty successful to me despite being constantly derided by hacker news for over 10 years now.

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#52
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but many people have simply closed themselves off to the possibility because they're unwilling, for mostly selfish reasons, to even consider the benefits. And many people have considered the benefits and have rejected the scheme anyway. I'm curious, though... what do you mean by "selfish reasons"? That implies that such people are making a decision that disadvantages others in order to give themselves an advantage.…

It's selfish to reject something beneficial to everyone because you won't benefit as much as others, no? Maybe jealousy is a better adjective. You continue to call it a "scheme" but it was literally invented due to the corruption and malfeasance and "schemes" of the current banking system. Do you call those schemes and scams as well or are those just the ones we've deemed acceptable and necessary for some reason? FWI…

....is it selfish to promote something with zero practical use so you can sell it for more than you bought it for?

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#53
post #17

Some people are confused about SEC involvement. As a reminder, the SEC cannot bring criminal charges. If someone gets arrested, Department of Justice decided to arrest them. > The U.S. Attorney's Office in Manhattan said it would hold a press conference at 11:30 a.m. ET (1530 GMT) to provide details on the charges against Mashinsky and Cohen-Pavon.

Sure, but the SEC completely controls the definition of criminality here. There was no arrest-able offence until the SEC made it one.

I really don't know how to respond to this. You can see the charges starting on page 37 of this document:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.60...

The document references the Code of Laws of the United States of America or USC, specifically the sections on Securities Fraud, Commodities Fraud, and Wire Fraud. The SEC didn't add these sections just for this case, they were there before Celsius was founded.

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What global money transmission method doesn’t have transaction fees? Can you name one?

Cash. That's why you have to declare it when you move it around in large amounts.

Cash has a transaction cost: you need to physically present it.

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#55
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but many people have simply closed themselves off to the possibility because they're unwilling, for mostly selfish reasons, to even consider the benefits. And many people have considered the benefits and have rejected the scheme anyway. I'm curious, though... what do you mean by "selfish reasons"? That implies that such people are making a decision that disadvantages others in order to give themselves an advantage.…

It's selfish to reject something beneficial to everyone because you won't benefit as much as others, no? Maybe jealousy is a better adjective. You continue to call it a "scheme" but it was literally invented due to the corruption and malfeasance and "schemes" of the current banking system. Do you call those schemes and scams as well or are those just the ones we've deemed acceptable and necessary for some reason? FWI…

> It's selfish to reject something beneficial to everyone because you won't benefit as much as others, no?

If I decide not to use cryptocurrencies, I am not denying anyone else from using cryptocurrencies. My decision disadvantages nobody. There is no social duty to use cryptocurrencies.

Also, if I disagree that cryptocurrency is "beneficial to everyone" (and I do), then I'm not being selfish for not taking part no matter what.

> You continue to call it a "scheme"

I did not intend "scheme" as a pejorative. I meant it to mean "plan" or "system". My apologies for the miscommunication here.

> We're all "rich" here and I get why most of us simply want that to continue.

Umm, what? I honestly don't understand what you mean by this.

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#56

And now "crypto" bros are moving to AI. The never ending story.

AI is not in the same category in my book. Both may be overhyped in some ways, but blockchain technology was fundamentally a bad idea with no legitimate use cases.

It can be argued that probabilistic generative AI is about as equally worthless from first principles.

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#57

This is great for crypto. Justice for scammers who thought crypto users could be taken advantage of without consequence. Ponzi schemes like Celsius are not exclusive to crypto and it's great to know the Justice department will prosecute scammers regardless of the unit of currency being used.

I can't tell if this is a meme "This is good for Bit Coin" or serious.

Of course the DOJ will go after anyone committing fraud?

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#58

This is great for crypto. Justice for scammers who thought crypto users could be taken advantage of without consequence. Ponzi schemes like Celsius are not exclusive to crypto and it's great to know the Justice department will prosecute scammers regardless of the unit of currency being used.

I get what you’re trying to say, but honestly? All this does is hurt the reputation of crypto further. It’s yet another headline about crypto scams/ponzi scheme/etc. projected to an audience that is weary of being easily scammed out of money they believe to be safer elsewhere.

No one who is skeptical or on the fence about crypto is going to see this headline and go “oh good! They must be catching the bad guys, so now I feel more secure about getting into crypto.” Just like no one who sees an explosion in arrests of violent criminals in their home town thinks “good, must be a lot safer here now.”

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI is not in the same category in my book. Both may be overhyped in some ways, but blockchain technology was fundamentally a bad idea with no legitimate use cases.

Bitcoin has proven to be an inflation resistant store of value enabling private and fast transactions to anywhere in the world - seems pretty successful to me despite being constantly derided by hacker news for over 10 years now.

The value will deflate at some point, it's kind of a mathematical certainty. We cannot extract more money from the system than we put in, since Bitcoin is a non-productive asset. It does not generate revenue the way that a business/company does. And someone has to pay for the electricity of the miners, so money is draining out of the system, making it a negative sum game that people are playing.

I would also disagree that the transactions are fast or private.

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What global money transmission method doesn’t have transaction fees? Can you name one?

Cash. That's why you have to declare it when you move it around in large amounts.

I would posit that the fee for tje airline ticket or the fuel and upkeep for your car is a transaction fee levied on cash transactions.

Sure, the bill itself is untouched, but the fee is still extracted.

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