Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 379 posts

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#41

Post by srejk »

hammock wrote: post #30
icepat wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you rolled back every bitcoin transaction ever made you would end up with people in debt because the transaction fees were paid. This can be said about every bank transaction that charges a fee as well. Not a crypto fan at all (I find it rather silly overall), however this is not a particularly strong angle to attack it from.

[flagged]

Are you really quoting fucking human trafficker Andrew Tate on economics?

Electronic funds transfer (including credit cards) increase the velocity of money significantly. This means more transactions, which means more overall wealth creation.

To say nothing of the fact that of that 1.5% fee, I'm recovering most, all, or more than it with things like cashback, rewards points, etc.

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#42

Post by wpietri »

tmpz22 wrote: post #36
wpietri wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And unfortunately I think the tech industry unintentionally enabled it in a few ways. The internet/mobile boom was a real leap for humanity. (Not an unmixed one, any more than the printing press was. But a real leap nonetheless.) This left a lot investors looking for the Next Big Thing. I think it made regulators very cautious of possibly harming something that could be The Future. Journalists were accustomed to tell…

But how much does our industry get to claim unintentional? Were we incompetent? Naive? Uninformed? Blinded by good intentions, optimism, greed? If celebrities who endorsed ftx are now in hot water - should tech influencers such as major VC firms also be held liable?

Entirely fair questions.

I said unintentional because a lot of the same factors were helpful for the tech industry and we as an industry just blithely accepted their continuance. That includes the VC money spigots for sure.

But there are plenty of actors, specific VCs included, where I have a hard time believing they didn't know better. In my view it was often their job to know better.

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#43

Post by shagymoe »

JohnFen wrote: post #27
shagymoe wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As noted by another poster, all transactions cost someone something on every monetary network. You're also completely ignoring all the benefits miners provide by securing the network etc... Celcius, FTX, et al the many thousands of shitcoins are all scams or pyramid schemes without merit. Bitcoin, despite that fact that early adopters profit greatly, has many benefits to individuals and society as a whole but many pe…

> but many people have simply closed themselves off to the possibility because they're unwilling, for mostly selfish reasons, to even consider the benefits. And many people have considered the benefits and have rejected the scheme anyway. I'm curious, though... what do you mean by "selfish reasons"? That implies that such people are making a decision that disadvantages others in order to give themselves an advantage.…

It's selfish to reject something beneficial to everyone because you won't benefit as much as others, no? Maybe jealousy is a better adjective.

You continue to call it a "scheme" but it was literally invented due to the corruption and malfeasance and "schemes" of the current banking system. Do you call those schemes and scams as well or are those just the ones we've deemed acceptable and necessary for some reason?

FWIW, I think the current system is unstoppable and inflation is necessary theft because that's just how it works but I do believe people should be able to save and not lose value. On a long-term basis, Bitcoin achieves that when essentially nothing else can because we've designed it that way.

We're all "rich" here and I get why most of us simply want that to continue.

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#44

Post by bottlepalm »

This is great for crypto. Justice for scammers who thought crypto users could be taken advantage of without consequence. Ponzi schemes like Celsius are not exclusive to crypto and it's great to know the Justice department will prosecute scammers regardless of the unit of currency being used.

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#45

Post by duckhelmet »

wpietri wrote: post #32
jqpabc123 wrote: post #8

Crypto is a fraudster's paradise.

And unfortunately I think the tech industry unintentionally enabled it in a few ways. The internet/mobile boom was a real leap for humanity. (Not an unmixed one, any more than the printing press was. But a real leap nonetheless.) This left a lot investors looking for the Next Big Thing. I think it made regulators very cautious of possibly harming something that could be The Future. Journalists were accustomed to tell…

It's understandable why these were modded into invisibility ;) --

@nancyhn: “The banking industry is a fraudster's paradise. The difference is they don't get arrested, they get bailed out with bonuses. It seems there are a lot of short memories here who don't remember 2008.” --

icepat: “If you rolled back every bitcoin transaction ever made you would end up with people in debt because the transaction fees were paid. This makes bitcoin into a scam. The miners in total are guaranteed to win, everyone else in total is guaranteed to lose. Some people haven't realized their loss but it's there. It is an ingenious scam because it's not the scammers who hype it up, no, it's the marks because the only way they can get ahead if they hype it up. The miners get their cut no matter what.”

“This is not the same for say, gold, because gold can be made into, say, electronics which now can be sold for more than the sum of the cost of the components. Stocks pay dividends etc.”

“Since so fundamentally it's a scam, is it a wonder other scams are built on top?”

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#46

Post by angry_albatross »

elforce002 wrote: post #37

And now "crypto" bros are moving to AI. The never ending story.

AI is not in the same category in my book. Both may be overhyped in some ways, but blockchain technology was fundamentally a bad idea with no legitimate use cases.

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#48

Post by bottlepalm »

elforce002 wrote: post #37

And now "crypto" bros are moving to AI. The never ending story.

Crypto was done in 2010. The bros tried to put their own dumb ideas on top of it like DAOs, smart contracts, NFTs, tokens, block chain xyz, etc..

Now the bros will be moving to AI, bringing along all their dumb ideas for everyone to enjoy again.

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#49

Post by angry_albatross »

namirez wrote: post #15
jbverschoor wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not both?

Because it’s an “or” rather than an “xor”.

But "xor" is the operation that prevents both. So maybe you meant that it is an implied "xor" instead of an "or"?

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#50

Post by thrownaway89865 »

Would someone explain to me what the endgame of these fraudsters is? I mean, of course they are trying to get rich quick pulling these schemes but you would believe that they do it because they perceive that there is some sort of opportunity to cash out without inevitably going to prison some day, right? What is the thought process in the mind of these criminals when shit hits the fan? Maybe just hire very expensive lawyers or move to some weird jurisdiction where they can't get arrested?
Post reply on HN