Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud • Hacker News Board

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#21

Post by TheAlchemist » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 4:05 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #4

"Somebody is lying. Either the bank is lying or Celsius is lying.” - Alex Mashinsky EDIT: omg at the almost $5B settlement https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/13/former-celsius-ceo-arrested-... ("The FTC also announced a $4.7 billion settlement against the exchange, which will not be paid until creditors and investors have been repaid in bankruptcy proceedings.")

All those guys are going to end up in prison. It’s fraud after fraud - biggest one being Tether.

It’s just impressive how long it all takes.

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#22

Post by justapassenger » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 4:12 PM UTC

Oh no. Anyway.

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#23

Post by shagymoe » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 4:13 PM UTC

chx wrote: post #16

jqpabc123 wrote: post #8

Crypto is a fraudster's paradise.

Deleted. Read https://ic.unicamp.br/~stolfi/bitcoin/2020-12-31-bitcoin-pon... https://www.ic.unicamp.br/~stolfi/bitcoin/2021-01-16-yes-pon... instead.

As noted by another poster, all transactions cost someone something on every monetary network. You're also completely ignoring all the benefits miners provide by securing the network etc...

Celcius, FTX, et al the many thousands of shitcoins are all scams or pyramid schemes without merit. Bitcoin, despite that fact that early adopters profit greatly, has many benefits to individuals and society as a whole but many people have simply closed themselves off to the possibility because they're unwilling, for mostly selfish reasons, to even consider the benefits.

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#24

Post by zarzavat » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 4:15 PM UTC

chx wrote: post #16

jqpabc123 wrote: post #8

Crypto is a fraudster's paradise.

Deleted. Read https://ic.unicamp.br/~stolfi/bitcoin/2020-12-31-bitcoin-pon... https://www.ic.unicamp.br/~stolfi/bitcoin/2021-01-16-yes-pon... instead.

What global money transmission method doesn’t have transaction fees? Can you name one?

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#25

Post by legitster » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 4:19 PM UTC

csours wrote: post #17

Some people are confused about SEC involvement. As a reminder, the SEC cannot bring criminal charges. If someone gets arrested, Department of Justice decided to arrest them. > The U.S. Attorney's Office in Manhattan said it would hold a press conference at 11:30 a.m. ET (1530 GMT) to provide details on the charges against Mashinsky and Cohen-Pavon.

Sure, but the SEC completely controls the definition of criminality here. There was no arrest-able offence until the SEC made it one.

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#26

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 4:22 PM UTC

jqpabc123 wrote: post #8

Crypto is a fraudster's paradise.

[deleted]

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#27

Post by JohnFen » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 4:24 PM UTC

shagymoe wrote: post #23

chx wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deleted. Read https://ic.unicamp.br/~stolfi/bitcoin/2020-12-31-bitcoin-pon... https://www.ic.unicamp.br/~stolfi/bitcoin/2021-01-16-yes-pon... instead.

As noted by another poster, all transactions cost someone something on every monetary network. You're also completely ignoring all the benefits miners provide by securing the network etc... Celcius, FTX, et al the many thousands of shitcoins are all scams or pyramid schemes without merit. Bitcoin, despite that fact that early adopters profit greatly, has many benefits to individuals and society as a whole but many pe…

> but many people have simply closed themselves off to the possibility because they're unwilling, for mostly selfish reasons, to even consider the benefits.

And many people have considered the benefits and have rejected the scheme anyway.

I'm curious, though... what do you mean by "selfish reasons"? That implies that such people are making a decision that disadvantages others in order to give themselves an advantage. I'm struggling to see how that concept applies here.

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#28

Post by matthews2 » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 4:24 PM UTC

cft wrote: post #13

martin8412 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's completely irrelevant. It's not the job of the SEC to guide companies/people on what constitutes securities. Their job is to bring enforcement action if they believe the law is being broken. If you want legal advice, get a lawyer. If you don't want an expensive court case to determine who is in the right, don't do business in areas without established case law.

USA was doing very well before FTC was created in 1914. In fact, most of American wealth that the US has been riding on, was accumulated before then. Airplane, Ford Model T, etc where all created before then.

Airplane was released in 1980.

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#29

Post by otikik » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 4:26 PM UTC

icepat wrote: post #20

chx wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deleted. Read https://ic.unicamp.br/~stolfi/bitcoin/2020-12-31-bitcoin-pon... https://www.ic.unicamp.br/~stolfi/bitcoin/2021-01-16-yes-pon... instead.

> If you rolled back every bitcoin transaction ever made you would end up with people in debt because the transaction fees were paid. This can be said about every bank transaction that charges a fee as well. Not a crypto fan at all (I find it rather silly overall), however this is not a particularly strong angle to attack it from.

I am in firm opposition to crypto and I agree with you. That line of argumentation is so shaky that it makes crypto look better.

Re: Founder of crypto lender Celsius Network arrested, charged with fraud

#30

Post by hammock » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 4:26 PM UTC

icepat wrote: post #20

chx wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deleted. Read https://ic.unicamp.br/~stolfi/bitcoin/2020-12-31-bitcoin-pon... https://www.ic.unicamp.br/~stolfi/bitcoin/2021-01-16-yes-pon... instead.

> If you rolled back every bitcoin transaction ever made you would end up with people in debt because the transaction fees were paid. This can be said about every bank transaction that charges a fee as well. Not a crypto fan at all (I find it rather silly overall), however this is not a particularly strong angle to attack it from.

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