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Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

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Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#51

Post by Xylakant »

lolinder wrote: post #35
knaik94 wrote: post #20

I am not sure what the best way to communicate with these kinds of parents is. This is a parent with a very specific kind of mindset about who should be the ultimate authority on their child. More often than not, it becomes unhealthy for the child living in this environment both physically and emotionally. Everyone understands the parents ultimately mean no harm, but their warped perception of science, among other th…

> This is a parent with a very specific kind of mindset about who should be the ultimate authority on their child. I think this may be your problem: you don't perceive the parent as the ultimate authority on the child. As a tutor, you fill a strictly advisory role, not a position of authority, and even your advisory role is limited in scope. If you try to exert authority or influence outside of that scope then yes, y…

But the question is whether parents should be the ultimate authority on the child, and the law in many countries does not support that. The lines get drawn at different points in different countries, but many have laws against child endangerment etc.

For example, in Europe it’s mandatory to send your child to school - whether the parents want it or not. Some parts of the curriculum are mandatory, whether the parents agree or not.

It is the role of the tutor and teacher to ensure that children receive an education in line with this. Parents can complain, but they have no authority there.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#52

Post by thaumasiotes »

jurassic wrote: post #12

We're shopping around for a pediatrician for our forthcoming baby and several offices we called said they will only accept new patients who will commit to a full schedule of vaccines. That's fine with us, but I got the feeling some providers are just tired of having the same stupid arguments with parents.

> our forthcoming baby

Congratulations :)

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#53

Post by roenxi »

guidedlight wrote: post #39

Under Australia's "No Jab, No Pay" laws, families cannot receive government taxation benefits for their unvaccinated children. In addition, some states require an up to date vaccination record to be enrolled in pre-school, kindergarten, and in some states, primary school. Interestingly, it was News Limited (parent company of Fox News) that championed these laws. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Jab,_No_Pay

I have very mixed feelings about this policy. I don't want my government taking my money in taxes, then deploying it as welfare conditional on unrelated policies. Particularly because once the have this leverage they'll make more widespread use of it.

Some (all, in fact) of the anti-vaxxers I know are extremely upstanding small businesspeople. I can imagine in the next pandemic that (1) the government will tax them heavily pre-pandemic (2) government shuts their business down by force and (3) refuses to support them unless they comply with a vaccination policy that they don't agree with.

That seems a logical but perverse destination for this sort of policy that is both unfair and at odds with basic concepts of property, freedom and charity.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#54

Post by hanselot »

hcrean wrote: post #33
_Microft wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's what happens if people lack self-reflection. If they had asked themselves if there is any chance that they could possibly know better than someone who's working on a topic all the time, the answer would have been a resounding no, no matter the topic in question.

It is almost unperceivable to people who truly have faith, that other might not believe in the same higher authority as them. This is a story as old as time.

Faith has no impact on my decision to prefer not to be the guinea pig for experimental gene therapy, that results in micro clotting and turning your body into a spike protein factory.

I have no issue with traditional vaccination, but this is nothing like a vaccination. They wouldn't have needed to change the definition of vaccination if it was.

They wouldn't need to push this 24/7 on every possible platform if it worked as promised. They wouldn't have to tell us that these super rare side effects that every one of my colleagues is experiencing is super rare and nothing to be concerned about.

If you find your opinions align with the mindless masses, perhaps you are among them.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#55

Post by realjhol »

hutzlibu wrote: post #42
nnx wrote: post #31

This is really sad as it will probably cause unnecessary children deaths down the road. I think public health authorities have serious soul-searching to do, this outcome was clearly warned upon by a lot of doctors and paediatricians who seen first hand parents not understanding why those authorities were pushing so hard novel mrna covid-19 vaccines on healthy children that were basically not at risk from this disease…

Yeah, the push to vaccinate children was not for the children, but to protect the old. And what will likely happen now, is a stronger push for forced vaccinations, met by even more entrenching of the anti-vaxx crowd.

[flagged]

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#56

Post by iinnPP »

knaik94 wrote: post #20

I am not sure what the best way to communicate with these kinds of parents is. This is a parent with a very specific kind of mindset about who should be the ultimate authority on their child. More often than not, it becomes unhealthy for the child living in this environment both physically and emotionally. Everyone understands the parents ultimately mean no harm, but their warped perception of science, among other th…

Why would you, as a tutor, suggest medical interventions for your students?

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#57

Post by korm »

ben_w wrote: post #37
_Microft wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's what happens if people lack self-reflection. If they had asked themselves if there is any chance that they could possibly know better than someone who's working on a topic all the time, the answer would have been a resounding no, no matter the topic in question.

While any sane person would agree in general , it isn't hard to find examples of experts in any domain who made some mistake in that domain at some point. Also, normal people are absolutely terrible about probability. Combined, I therefore suspect it's "I know they're normally right, but not about this ."

In this case it's not disagreement with one expert, or even a few. The vaccination schedule is based on a consensus of experts. Not only across organizations, like the CDC, AAP, FDA, but across nations too, more or less.

It's truly bizarre to _radically_ disagree, especially as a layperson.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#58

Post by wil421 »

jurassic wrote: post #12

We're shopping around for a pediatrician for our forthcoming baby and several offices we called said they will only accept new patients who will commit to a full schedule of vaccines. That's fine with us, but I got the feeling some providers are just tired of having the same stupid arguments with parents.

Same here. They flat out told us on day 1 if you aren’t going to get the full schedule of vaccines find another doctor. To clarify, they don’t care if you get the flu or Covid shots.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#59

Post by lolinder »

Xylakant wrote: post #51
lolinder wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a parent with a very specific kind of mindset about who should be the ultimate authority on their child. I think this may be your problem: you don't perceive the parent as the ultimate authority on the child. As a tutor, you fill a strictly advisory role, not a position of authority, and even your advisory role is limited in scope. If you try to exert authority or influence outside of that scope then yes, y…

But the question is whether parents should be the ultimate authority on the child, and the law in many countries does not support that. The lines get drawn at different points in different countries, but many have laws against child endangerment etc. For example, in Europe it’s mandatory to send your child to school - whether the parents want it or not. Some parts of the curriculum are mandatory, whether the parents…

Regardless of jurisdiction, OP is not the state and the issues they're talking about (ADHD diagnosis and vaccines) are not related to their role as a tutor. Even in the most extreme state-as-ultimate-authority jurisdiction, OP's role on these topics would be that of a reporter, not that of an authority.

Re: Routine vaccinations drop among U.S. kindergartners for the third year in a row

#60

Post by thaumasiotes »

hestefisk wrote: post #3
nickpp wrote: post #2

Maybe this is what happens when you try to force people do something, even if for their own good? Like some sort of resistant force born in response to the force applied? Added: I am totally pro-vaccine as an extraordinary medical tool, just trying to understand this phenomenon hoping we won't make the same strategic mistakes again.

Parents have a responsibility of best interest for their children. Not vaccinating them so they can die from chicken pox is unforgivable, sorry.

> Not vaccinating [children] so they can die from chicken pox is unforgivable, sorry.

Children don't die from chicken pox. It's only dangerous to adults.

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