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Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

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Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#51

Post by rayiner »

hintymad wrote: post #40
hedora wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you're advocating for something like the SAFE Act: https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/2722 So, the Democrats are the racist right-wingers, and Mitch McConnell is the progressive in this story? Note that, on their own, paper ballots don't actually address the attack described in the article, though the bill provides funding for mechanisms that would.

No. I'm advocating a civil discourse in which people evaluate the pros and cons of different approaches without resorting to racial attacks. I'm advocating that people should be encouraged to ask questions, like why does it take so long for the US to count ballots without getting into partisan bullshit.

America has degenerated into sectarian politics, and in such a system you can’t have a civil discourse about anything without “resorting to racial attacks.” I went to go see the candidates in Iowa for the 2020 Dem primary I was amazed by their talent (Elizabeth Warren particularly) for injecting race into literally every issue.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#52

Post by the_snooze »

daenz wrote: post #31

They make it sound so simple: Bribe the Judge of Elections who oversees everything. Dilute the vote tallies by using the voting machines to increment the votes for specific candidates. Certify that the fake results are correct. Lie if anybody asks. This person did this with 2 separate judges. Why is it so easy?

All the more reason why risk-limiting audits [1] should be standard procedure to sanity-check precinct results, especially for thinly-attended elections where fraud has a bigger impact on the outcome. Unfortunately, these things take time and money, and there's little immediate payoff in doing it, especially in the small elections that need it the most.

[1] https://www.vote.pa.gov/About-Elections/Pages/Post-Election-...

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#53

Post by routerl »

daenz wrote: post #31

They make it sound so simple: Bribe the Judge of Elections who oversees everything. Dilute the vote tallies by using the voting machines to increment the votes for specific candidates. Certify that the fake results are correct. Lie if anybody asks. This person did this with 2 separate judges. Why is it so easy?

> Dilute the vote tallies by using the voting machines to increment the votes for specific candidates

> Why is it so easy?

I don't know, it doesn't seem easy to me. I mean, it seems like the result of a ton of long-term planning to implement processes that allow each instance of this to be easy. But the fight against electronic voting machines was fierce, and took a long time.

We lost, by the way.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#54

Post by jaywalk »

rayiner wrote: post #30

Americans have a really tough time with the notion of materiality. America is such a big country that, as a matter of statistics, anything that can happen is happening. That doesn’t mean it happens often enough to call into question our basic systems. In this case it’s the right that fails to grasp materiality. Yes, people vote illegally, ballot boxes get stuffed, their is collusion, etc. No, it doesn’t happen often…

> No, it doesn’t happen often enough to undermine the integrity of elections in the aggregate.

Ridiculous to just throw this out as if it's a concrete fact. Even changing the outcome of a Presidential election doesn't require any kind of sweeping, nationwide fraud campaign. Just enough well-placed ones where the vote will be close enough that the fraud doesn't have to be too large.

I'm not saying it has or hasn't happened, but it's certainly possible.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#55

Post by Animats »

causi wrote: post #48
Animats wrote: post #36

This was done by adding votes. The voter counts of poll watchers should not have matched those of the election officials. Why wasn't that noticed?

Fudging your personal count to make it match means less work for you. It could be as simple as that.

Usually, both parties have poll watchers present. Although some local party groups don't bother.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#57

Post by astrange »

jaywalk wrote: post #43
systemvoltage wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some reason progressives are against voter ID laws. I've said that before and will say it again: Most of EU requires ID to vote. I will support Republicans that want to do this. It is sad to bring EU in the picture to convince progressives but it is a magic word that somehow brings logic and reason. We shouldn't have to say "They do it in EU, so it must be good". People have stopped thinking for themselves. Anyth…

Quoted post unavailable.

It’s because the people who want voter ID also want to make it harder to get an ID and won’t accept student IDs but will accept eg your gun club ID.

Banning mail in ballots doesn’t sound like much of a good policy.

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#59

Post by throwaway0a5e »

daenz wrote: post #31

They make it sound so simple: Bribe the Judge of Elections who oversees everything. Dilute the vote tallies by using the voting machines to increment the votes for specific candidates. Certify that the fake results are correct. Lie if anybody asks. This person did this with 2 separate judges. Why is it so easy?

>This person did this with 2 separate judges. Why is it so easy?

You don't just cold call a judge. Presumably he knew enough about what his options for judges were that he could pick the ones who would be amenable to the idea and approach them.

The bribe at that point is just payment for risk (because the judge presumably doesn't have plausible deniability)

Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges

#60

Post by javagram »

gadders wrote: post #38

Quoted post unavailable.

Read the article, the type of fraud committed here has nothing to do with the allegations made about the 2020 election being “hacked.”

Also notice this guy was caught, the 2020 elections would have needed to involve a similar fraud being committed in every state and city (as similar voting trends were observed everywhere despite changes in types of voting or counting machines between different states).

Also when the ballots for the 2020 election were hand counted, the counts matched.

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