It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal • Hacker News Board

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#51

Post by xuki » Sun, Jun 05, 2022, 9:09 AM UTC

tjpnz wrote: post #21

AdvicePlz wrote: post #3

I knew someone who worked for EA as a UX researcher. He said that games like these are primarily targeting whales who will drop $10k on a game. They are the real money earners. The really sad part was the he said the most whales aren't super rich, they're just people with an addiction.

Time to start regulating these games in the same way we regulate gambling. They shouldn't be sold to children. They're not Kinda eggs nor LOL Surprise and should never be brushed off as surprise mechanics. They're glorified slot machines, through and through.

Apple/Google revenue will see a big decline if those games are regulated. Most if not all the top grossing games on mobile follow the same spending pattern, and a big chunk of app stores' revenue come from those games.

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#52

Post by can16358p » Sun, Jun 05, 2022, 9:12 AM UTC

vkou wrote: post #44

can16358p wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Predatory? Casinos shouldn't be regulated too. If nobody is forcing anyone to attend into something (like going to a casino or playing a pay-to-win game) nobody should have the right to change or regulate the inner dynamics. As long as the game doesn't clearly lie (e.g. telling a lootbox does something that it doesn't) everybody knows what a lootbox is. Playing the game is a voluntary action taken by an individual, j…

> Casinos shouldn't be regulated too. If nobody is forcing anyone to attend into something (like going to a casino or playing a pay-to-win game) nobody should have the right to change or regulate the inner dynamics. In theory, humans are rational, and in theory, spherical cows are an excellent basis for economics. Human brains have bugs, and these industries exploit them. It's predatory, and utterly reprehensible.

Human brains have bugs, and anyone going into a casino or a pay-to-win games know what they are going into. (If they don't that's their problem for not doing their own research and using common sense before putting their money)

Human brains also have a bug around sugar consumption. I've yet to see selling people sugar or sugar-containing foods/beverages being regulated.

Human brains also have a bug making many of them social media addicts.

Human brains have so many bugs. At the end of the day regulating these businesses will hurt more people who voluntarily want to be involved than saving potential addicts.

The real solution is never preventing people from doing things (of course as long as they affect only the person and not the others' rights), instead, it's educating.

If those governments placed their efforts into educating the people about addiction mechanics of those games/casinos etc. instead of blocking/regulating altogether, it would be much more beneficial than blocking people from their own decisions.

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#53

Post by ekianjo » Sun, Jun 05, 2022, 9:12 AM UTC

AdvicePlz wrote: post #3

I knew someone who worked for EA as a UX researcher. He said that games like these are primarily targeting whales who will drop $10k on a game. They are the real money earners. The really sad part was the he said the most whales aren't super rich, they're just people with an addiction.

> they're just people with an addiction.

Everyone has an addiction to something. You are lucky if its to something thats cheap and legal.

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#54

Post by gambiting » Sun, Jun 05, 2022, 9:14 AM UTC

The thing is - is it necessary to have the best gear to enjoy the game?

As a different example - I'm sure it would cost tens of thousands of dollars to max out your characters and gear in Genshin Impact, but I've played very enjoyable 100h+ and it's perfectly fine even if you don't have the max ascended characters and gear, I have a feeling those are there basically for the wales to spend money on but aren't necessary for gameplay in any way(well maybe for some crazy hardcore end game content, but as always, that seems to be something 0.0001% of the playerbase enjoys).

My point is - the game can still be enjoyable and worth playing even if you can't get the endgame gear. Is that the case here? I don't know.

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#55

Post by npteljes » Sun, Jun 05, 2022, 9:14 AM UTC

can16358p wrote: post #38

vhgyu75e6u wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the monetization mechanics in this games rely on predatory practices employed by casinos which we already regulate?

Predatory? Casinos shouldn't be regulated too. If nobody is forcing anyone to attend into something (like going to a casino or playing a pay-to-win game) nobody should have the right to change or regulate the inner dynamics. As long as the game doesn't clearly lie (e.g. telling a lootbox does something that it doesn't) everybody knows what a lootbox is. Playing the game is a voluntary action taken by an individual, j…

You emphasize personal responsibility, but most of the world doesn't have that on the top of their societal values[0]. And one person's problematic gambling, as any other addiction, definitely impacts others, similar to how substance abuse or any other addiction really[1].

[0] See it as "individualism" here on the first map: https://geerthofstede.com/culture-geert-hofstede-gert-jan-ho...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_gambling#Signs_and_sym...

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#56

Post by mfashby » Sun, Jun 05, 2022, 9:15 AM UTC

can16358p wrote: post #38

vhgyu75e6u wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the monetization mechanics in this games rely on predatory practices employed by casinos which we already regulate?

Predatory? Casinos shouldn't be regulated too. If nobody is forcing anyone to attend into something (like going to a casino or playing a pay-to-win game) nobody should have the right to change or regulate the inner dynamics. As long as the game doesn't clearly lie (e.g. telling a lootbox does something that it doesn't) everybody knows what a lootbox is. Playing the game is a voluntary action taken by an individual, j…

> Playing the game is a voluntary action taken by an individual, just like going to a casino.

The same argument can be made for other regulated activities like drinking alcohol or smoking (whether you agree or not, that's how it is in a lot of places today). Those are voluntary activities too.

> whereas it doesn't have negative effects to society

Addiction _does_ have negative effects on society, which is why these rules get introduced. It looks like this ban [1] is enforcement of gambling laws, because the loot is transferrable it's deemed to have value. I'm curious in this case to know how much of an impact banning these particular games actually has though.

[1] https://www.thegamer.com/netherlands-loot-box-ban/

edit; haha, lots of people spotted this same argument.

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#57

Post by xmodem » Sun, Jun 05, 2022, 9:15 AM UTC

ekianjo wrote: post #53

AdvicePlz wrote: post #3

I knew someone who worked for EA as a UX researcher. He said that games like these are primarily targeting whales who will drop $10k on a game. They are the real money earners. The really sad part was the he said the most whales aren't super rich, they're just people with an addiction.

> they're just people with an addiction. Everyone has an addiction to something. You are lucky if its to something thats cheap and legal.

It depends on the timeframe obviously, but $10k is hardly cheap.

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#58

Post by pawelmurias » Sun, Jun 05, 2022, 9:15 AM UTC

pototo666 wrote: post #14

holoduke wrote: post #4

Lootbox games: I don't understand why these kind of games are not getting banned or heavily restricted. There is absolutely not a single positive thing about these games. Moral doesn't matter.

Not to defend lootbox game. But some positive thing: it makes some people's life less boring. Lootbox doesn't make games interesting. But lootbox generates money to hire good designer, programmer to create interesting games, at least for some players.

Actually it's the opposite, the mobiles games are less fun for playing because they are optimized for addiction rather than fun.

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#59

Post by can16358p » Sun, Jun 05, 2022, 9:16 AM UTC

libraryatnight wrote: post #48

can16358p wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Predatory? Casinos shouldn't be regulated too. If nobody is forcing anyone to attend into something (like going to a casino or playing a pay-to-win game) nobody should have the right to change or regulate the inner dynamics. As long as the game doesn't clearly lie (e.g. telling a lootbox does something that it doesn't) everybody knows what a lootbox is. Playing the game is a voluntary action taken by an individual, j…

The last person who made this kind of argument to me was a gambling addict who had gotten into day trading.

Well sad for them. I'm not involved in either gambling, daytrading, nor pay-to-win games, or any other addictive practice.

Just because they shared a similar view on this doesn't mean that I'm also an addict too.

While you didn't explicitly tell such a thing, directly replying with this example implies that.

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#60

Post by Grollicus » Sun, Jun 05, 2022, 9:16 AM UTC

The worst thing (for me) about this is that whenever I go to the Apple App store I get bombarded will all these "games" that just try to make my life actively worse.

I don't understand why they pollute their brand like that.