51–60 of 166 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
The argument is not about the init system. systemd’s is probably fine. It’s about an ever expanding take-over of userspace by a single module, which is not the Unix way. And about a high-handed project leader who is paid by Redhat to do it full time.
Well isn't the Unix way still plaguing us with legacy craziness? How many bin directories do we need?
Slackware. Now and forever.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are many. Most amount to complaints about sysadmins having to re-learn a lot of stuff, much of which didn't actually need to be changed, at least not so thoroughly. Early on, most of the complaints centered around the poor migration path, the abandonment of plain text log files, and the absurdity of high-level user-facing software like the Gnome desktop environment having a hard dependency on a particular init…
Pretty much. There are components of systemd I really like. systemd-logind is really neat, it makes dealing with drm (direct rendering) devices nice by having a service where you can request access to GPUs without bumping into the problem of one process opened the endpoint and has exclusive control. It also makes dealing with machine events like closing your laptop's screen simple if you use a minimalistic window man…
udev is part of systemd now, because the systemd developers were the only ones willing to maintain it.
I think, that sums up what's wrong with the Linux world right now. NixOS and GuixSD being the next generation of distributions and people are calling it "neat project with some unique features, but it is more fun as an intellectual curiosity than as something practical" while arguing if a distribution should use Systemd or not...
The linux world is busy getting shit done. Ignore the children arguing over init systems.
Maybe I'm just out of the loop but what is the controversy regarding systemd?
Mostly that it WAY more complicated than it needs to be, and it often replaces well written and tested tools with VERY poor implementations. Things like NTP, syslog, DHCPd, cron, iptables, mount, automount, handling /tmp, /dev, DNS, su/sudo, etc. Letting the init system talk to the network before userspace has the ability to setup firewalls gives me the heebie jeebies. Often the implementations of systemd don't handl…
> Letting the init system talk to the network before userspace has the ability to setup firewalls gives me the heebie jeebies.
Are these just random claims? The init system is userspace, and you can have any service wait for anything to access the network, including disabling the whole network target and triggering it manually.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
It tries to do too much, badly, and with an air of entitlement around intentionally breaking things. Change is good, so let's change away from systemd.
If someone is able to create something that is half as good as systemd then distros will switch time it. The thing is that systemd solves a lot of problems for distros in a good enough way (frankly, currently in a way that is better than any existing alternative) that they are happy to have systemd deal with those issues while they focus on the stuff the distro makers are interested in.
Systemd favors the distro maintainer and cloud application service provider, and maybe the appliance manufacturer.
It's the exact opposite of a useful tool empowering the the individual.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
The argument is not about the init system. systemd’s is probably fine. It’s about an ever expanding take-over of userspace by a single module, which is not the Unix way. And about a high-handed project leader who is paid by Redhat to do it full time.
Agreed 100%. Systemd is a pretty good init system IMO. Service files are good, timers are good, dependency-based init is good. Easy sandboxing is nice. I absolutely _don't_ think that my init system should also be my bootloader. It also shouldn't manage my network configuration, or be responsible for controlling the system clock. And it shouldn't assert control of my home folders. And it shouldn't be spidering its wa…
This could not be further from the truth.
I think, that sums up what's wrong with the Linux world right now. NixOS and GuixSD being the next generation of distributions and people are calling it "neat project with some unique features, but it is more fun as an intellectual curiosity than as something practical" while arguing if a distribution should use Systemd or not...
The linux world is busy getting shit done. Ignore the children arguing over init systems.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
For example, systemd timers (timed systemctl services) are like cron if cron was slightly more complicated and had very good logging. :3
journalctl is a text adventure fever dream. Do systemd timers use a different logging system?
1. https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd-jou...
Earlier quoted context omitted.
The argument is not about the init system. systemd’s is probably fine. It’s about an ever expanding take-over of userspace by a single module, which is not the Unix way. And about a high-handed project leader who is paid by Redhat to do it full time.
Well isn't the Unix way still plaguing us with legacy craziness? How many bin directories do we need?