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Intel is changing the future of power supplies with its ATX12VO spec

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Re: Intel is changing the future of power supplies with its ATX12VO spec

#51

Post by yellowapple »

Marsymars wrote: post #41
kbumsik wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would be nice to replace legacy molex connectors with a more modern standard Any example of the modern one? I personally have no issues with the current one. I am not sure if those molex connectors should be called as legacy.

The SATA power connector is the obvious successor. Most random doodads (e.g. internal fan controllers) have moved from using molex connectors in the past to SATA power connectors now.

> Most random doodads (e.g. internal fan controllers) have moved from using molex connectors in the past to SATA power connectors now.

They have? I've literally never seen this in the wild.

Re: Intel is changing the future of power supplies with its ATX12VO spec

#52

Post by usrusr »

wlesieutre wrote: post #33
kbumsik wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would be nice to replace legacy molex connectors with a more modern standard Any example of the modern one? I personally have no issues with the current one. I am not sure if those molex connectors should be called as legacy.

Bulkiness is my main complaint, they can be a real nuisance in small form factor cases.

And some recent examples are a terrible fit, I remember them aligning much smoother. A clear sign that manufacturers consider them second class. And nobody will complain, because it just strengthens the pre-existing assumption that the new plugs are better.

Re: Intel is changing the future of power supplies with its ATX12VO spec

#53

Post by vifya »

It was bound to happen eventually, there has been a long trend towards point-of-use regulation displacing multiple output supplies. I'm just surprised they went with 12V, and not 19V which has lower rectification losses, less power loss to wire/trace resistance, and a large existing design ecosystem from laptops where 19V has been the norm for years.

Re: Intel is changing the future of power supplies with its ATX12VO spec

#54

Post by Marsymars »

yellowapple wrote: post #51
Marsymars wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SATA power connector is the obvious successor. Most random doodads (e.g. internal fan controllers) have moved from using molex connectors in the past to SATA power connectors now.

> Most random doodads (e.g. internal fan controllers) have moved from using molex connectors in the past to SATA power connectors now. They have? I've literally never seen this in the wild.

I've had this fan controller in my desktop for probably five years now: https://www.thermaltake.com/commander-fp-10-port-hub-for-pwm...

Re: Intel is changing the future of power supplies with its ATX12VO spec

#55

Post by myself248 »

Marsymars wrote: post #41
kbumsik wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would be nice to replace legacy molex connectors with a more modern standard Any example of the modern one? I personally have no issues with the current one. I am not sure if those molex connectors should be called as legacy.

The SATA power connector is the obvious successor. Most random doodads (e.g. internal fan controllers) have moved from using molex connectors in the past to SATA power connectors now.

The SATA power connector isn't that great at high currents, look at the numerous fires. Fan controllers have moved to that because most modern PSUs have a lot of them laying around, that's all. And the board-side connector is literally a PCB edge with gold fingers, so it's cheaper.

The Mini-Fit Jr connectors seem fit for purpose, but I don't like how stiffly they stick even after releasing the latch. And they're sort of tall, depending on what you're doing.

I'm a fan of Micro-Fit 3.0, and the single-row variants are available in enough positions that you could have a low-profile connector delivering plenty of reliable power. I think the dual-row would be more appropriate for most applications though. They're cheap enough, though the tooling isn't.

Re: Intel is changing the future of power supplies with its ATX12VO spec

#56

Post by sp332 »

DiabloD3 wrote: post #27

Four important things to consider: First, this already happened to some extent. Outside of drives and fans, the virtually all of the power used in your system is exclusively 12v; either from the 12v pins on your ATX24 or P4 or EPS12 connectors, or via the PCI-E connectors; very little non-drive or non-fan power is supplied via 3.3 or 5v rails. Second, almost all PSUs today use 12v DC to 3.3/5v DC converters to increa…

Yeah, this is just rearranging some things to avoid California's new efficiency regulations. If you move the inefficent stuff to the motherboard, the PSU magically gets more efficient!

Re: Intel is changing the future of power supplies with its ATX12VO spec

#57

Post by Gibbon1 »

garaetjjte wrote: post #14
baybal2 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, found that for myself when got into mobo design. ATX 5V is really unsuitable for USB power, and can play tricks on you. Similarly, 3.3V from PSU is useless at powering 3.3V logic. You have to do power staging on board to guarantee that PCI and i2c stuff turns on after the bridge/soc. Some PSUs don't follow reset timings, or don't do them at all on standby rail. So if you do ATX power by the book, you may end…

>ATX 5V is really unsuitable for USB power, and can play tricks on you. Why? I don't think current motherboard duplicate 5V converter. >you may end up with improperly inited board, and 3.3V ICs booting up before the CPU. Why it cannot just hold reset line for these chips high until CPU started?

A lot of peripheral IC's don't have reset lines. Sometimes this is a big big problem. You can end up with failure to come up maybe 1 in 10,000. Exactly the sort of thing that shows up late in development or worse in the field.

Tip: If anyone tells you power supply and reset sequencing is 'easy' ignore them.

Re: Intel is changing the future of power supplies with its ATX12VO spec

#58

Post by kbumsik »

loeg wrote: post #35
kbumsik wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2 pins would be plenty No. You are gonna burn wires.

Well, no; that'd be a broken design that wouldn't pass UL/CE testing. You'd instead have to use much thicker wires.

You need to consider both the wire thinness and the terminal.

Re: Intel is changing the future of power supplies with its ATX12VO spec

#59

Post by thedance »

jleahy wrote: post #25
mackal wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1 pin is called PS_ON, this shorting to ground turns it on. 1 called PWR_OK which says everything is working in some way I don't want to research. 1 +12V for stand by. 1 +12V sense for detecting voltage drop or something. And then 2 normal +12V and 3 ground. There is 1 reserved pin as well (rectangle connector so needs even pin count)

> +12V sense for detecting voltage drop or something This is actually the best bit, incredibly smart idea. It's a kelvin connection to ensure that you get 12V at the motherboard, regardless of power dissipation in the wire.

Why is it important to have absolute accuracy on the 12V pin?

Re: Intel is changing the future of power supplies with its ATX12VO spec

#60

Post by chrisseaton »

DiabloD3 wrote: post #27

Four important things to consider: First, this already happened to some extent. Outside of drives and fans, the virtually all of the power used in your system is exclusively 12v; either from the 12v pins on your ATX24 or P4 or EPS12 connectors, or via the PCI-E connectors; very little non-drive or non-fan power is supplied via 3.3 or 5v rails. Second, almost all PSUs today use 12v DC to 3.3/5v DC converters to increa…

> Fourth, Intel is also not the dominant player in the field now, AMD is.

This is delusional - AMD’s market share is like 15%.

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