21–30 of 188 posts
This makes sense for specific use case computers, specialty ones, etc. So it'll be adopted. And because of economies of scale it'll push into actual desktop computers and their mobos. Having to dissipate all that heat on/in the mobo will be terrible for actual desktop computers. But it'll happen anyway because it's better for corporations and the desktop market doesn't drive their decisions.
This makes sense for specific use case computers, specialty ones, etc. So it'll be adopted. And because of economies of scale it'll push into actual desktop computers and their mobos. Having to dissipate all that heat on/in the mobo will be terrible for actual desktop computers. But it'll happen anyway because it's better for corporations and the desktop market doesn't drive their decisions.
Why does this still have 10 pins? 2 pins would be plenty. 12v Power, Ground, and an overlaid capacitively coupled 2 way data comms running at a few hundred khz to send and receive status messages, fan speeds, model/serial numbers, firmware/ temperatures, on/off commands, etc.
This makes sense for specific use case computers, specialty ones, etc. So it'll be adopted. And because of economies of scale it'll push into actual desktop computers and their mobos. Having to dissipate all that heat on/in the mobo will be terrible for actual desktop computers. But it'll happen anyway because it's better for corporations and the desktop market doesn't drive their decisions.
Back when this stuff was originally designed 12V, 5V and 3.3V was all you needed (actually with the AT standard it was just 12V for motors and 5V for logic, that was pre-CMOS). Now every component requires a different voltage (if there's any standard it might be 1.8V or 1.2V), and to get several hundreds watts of power at 0.9V would require cables about an inch thick.
12V is the defacto standard for powering pretty much anything these days. Converting 12V into whatever you want is utterly trivial and incredibly efficient.
Why does this still have 10 pins? 2 pins would be plenty. 12v Power, Ground, and an overlaid capacitively coupled 2 way data comms running at a few hundred khz to send and receive status messages, fan speeds, model/serial numbers, firmware/ temperatures, on/off commands, etc.
1 pin is called PS_ON, this shorting to ground turns it on. 1 called PWR_OK which says everything is working in some way I don't want to research. 1 +12V for stand by. 1 +12V sense for detecting voltage drop or something. And then 2 normal +12V and 3 ground. There is 1 reserved pin as well (rectangle connector so needs even pin count)
This is actually the best bit, incredibly smart idea. It's a kelvin connection to ensure that you get 12V at the motherboard, regardless of power dissipation in the wire.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Probably would allow very cheap power supplies w/built-in UPSes. 12V±5% voltage is the allowed range.
±5% would not be that easy with current spikes from CPU and GPU. It's 300W-400W load going to near zero and back within microseconds.
First, this already happened to some extent. Outside of drives and fans, the virtually all of the power used in your system is exclusively 12v; either from the 12v pins on your ATX24 or P4 or EPS12 connectors, or via the PCI-E connectors; very little non-drive or non-fan power is supplied via 3.3 or 5v rails.
Second, almost all PSUs today use 12v DC to 3.3/5v DC converters to increase efficiency given how little 3.3v and 5v is required. The PSU itself is often designed internally as a high efficiency multi-module single rail 12v-only design.
Third, Intel is not in a position to dictate anything. Intel has tried to float many changes in the standards (such as the WTX board standard (with matching incompatible mobo plug), and the BTX board standard (using ATX plugs)), and all failed. The only thing that stuck was using 4 and 8 pin PC Minifit Jr plugs (the same ones ATX, PCI-E and countless other plugs come from); and, annoyingly, somehow not compatible with PCI-E's pinout.
Fourth, Intel is also not the dominant player in the field now, AMD is. They failed to get major changes through as the dominant player, what makes them think anyone cares to hear what they have to say today? It is unlikely AMD will ever ship machines that don't ship with normal ATX unless they just jettison the ATX24 altogether.
Side note: 12v capacity: ATX24 144w, P4 192w, EPS12 336w, PCI-E 6 75w, PCI-E 8 150w, and the PCI-E slot itself 75w.
A modern desktop could theoretically be ran off a dual EPS12 and a PCI-E 8+8 for the GPU; modern mobo designs run the CPU and RAM VRMs off the EPS12 entirely, modern GPU designs run the GPU VRMs off of PCI-E plugs and the VRAM VRMs off the PCI-E slot power, very little power of any voltage is supplied to the system via ATX24.
Another side note: Any board that has a legitimately clean 5v rail for USB is not feeding it off the PSU directly. Any board that has absolutely garbage USB power probably committed this sin.
I wonder how easy this would make server local UPS systems. A battery with a single buck/boost converter should be enough as a power supply. Just need to add a mains fed charge circuit.
Probably would allow very cheap power supplies w/built-in UPSes. 12V±5% voltage is the allowed range.
This makes sense for specific use case computers, specialty ones, etc. So it'll be adopted. And because of economies of scale it'll push into actual desktop computers and their mobos. Having to dissipate all that heat on/in the mobo will be terrible for actual desktop computers. But it'll happen anyway because it's better for corporations and the desktop market doesn't drive their decisions.
A typical CPU (or SSD even) uses a voltage of 0.9V currently, surely it doesn't matter whether the motherboard is converting 12V to 0.9V or 5V to 0.9V. Back when this stuff was originally designed 12V, 5V and 3.3V was all you needed (actually with the AT standard it was just 12V for motors and 5V for logic, that was pre-CMOS). Now every component requires a different voltage (if there's any standard it might be 1.8V…
Why does this still have 10 pins? 2 pins would be plenty. 12v Power, Ground, and an overlaid capacitively coupled 2 way data comms running at a few hundred khz to send and receive status messages, fan speeds, model/serial numbers, firmware/ temperatures, on/off commands, etc.
to deliver 1500 watts at 12v through one pin would be 125 amps. 5 pins each with 25A I would think you’d want at least 14 gauge per pin and even then I think they would be rather warm.
Apply this simple rule of thumb: watts become heat. The only major exception to this is where the power has exited the computer via USB or similar.