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Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips

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Re: Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips

#51

Articles whose content contradict their headlines are rather quite frustrating. The title is "Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips" But the article itself states: "While Huawei hasn’t stopped using American chips entirely, it has reduced its reliance on U.S. suppliers or eliminated U.S. chips in phones launched since May" And it's graph shows significant usage of US chips. I'm sure Huawei is tryi…

Your comment has some validity, but the title doesn't seem false; the key point is that Huawei's new flagship product, the Mate 30...

> contained no U.S. parts, according to an analysis by UBS and Fomalhaut Techno Solution

Re: Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips

#52
post #31
post #10

Even if those chips are completely devoid of American-origin IP cores, they almost certainly were designed with American-origin EDA software. I am not sure if such chips would be covered by existing export bans or if EDA software licensing agreements prohibit export of produced design files to countries subject to US export bans. If neither is the case, I expect either or both to change soon.

Excellent point. I would say it would be more impressive if China were to build its own EDA tools. At this point, I think the US should start protecting its EDA companies from Chinese investors.

I really doubt that the EDA software is really that much of an investment these days. It's the lithography tech that's the real crown jewel, and it is being protected.

Re: Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* Subsidized by the Chinese govt. and intellectual property stolen from western companies.

I know a few Natives on Twitter who say similar things about the US -- only talking about real property, not intellectual property -- and who would like their land back.

People are free to say stupid things. Native Americans aren't a monolith -it was never 'their' land - there were hundreds of native nations who were variously at peace or at war with each other over the years.

I wonder how those Natives you know on twitter would carve up the land once they got it back - do Apaches need to go back to Canada, since they invaded the southwest only in the ~16th century and pushed out the Pueblo people?

Re: Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a few Natives on Twitter who say similar things about the US -- only talking about real property, not intellectual property -- and who would like their land back.

I fail to see how this anecdote about a Twitter comment is relevant to a comment about IP theft. GP is correct - any older Cisco employee can count off a laundry list of things Huawei directly stole from them, and the Chinese state absolutely subsidizes them. GP is making the point that it isn't fair to compare Huawei prices to Apple prices given the amount of engineering Huawei stole from other companies and their g…

It's not an anecdote about a Twitter comment. It's a nutshell version of American history.

China also has lower labor costs generally. Lots of things cost less in other countries for the same reason.

It's rare for anyone to come up with something genuinely original. We depend on education and culture and many things to develop anything. Then we argue about things like intellectual property rights because such conventions are an attempt to sort out how to make society work given that ideas are easily "stolen" and if we don't allow for some means for originators of new things to profit, we actively discourage our best and brightest from contributing to forward progress.

But this forum skews American. Most people will argue "for" the American side and "against" the Chinese for that reason alone.

I'm only pointing out the hypocrisy and silliness of arguing this as if America has some absolute moral high ground.

I follow Natives on Twitter because, according to oral family tradition, I'm a small part Cherokee. I'm pretty sure most full-blooded Natives would happily ship me back to Europe along with the rest of the whites.

I don't know the right answer going forward. I just believe that you need actual facts to find it.

The implicit assumption that China is The Bad Guy and America is The Good Guy is unlikely to yield a real solution when there is so much low hanging fruit for saying "The two nations aren't all that different."

But it seems my thoughts are likely wholly unwelcome here, as is so often the case.

Re: Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips

#55

Articles whose content contradict their headlines are rather quite frustrating. The title is "Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips" But the article itself states: "While Huawei hasn’t stopped using American chips entirely, it has reduced its reliance on U.S. suppliers or eliminated U.S. chips in phones launched since May" And it's graph shows significant usage of US chips. I'm sure Huawei is tryi…

There is no contradiction. The title, "Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips", is confirmed by the content of the article, including a quote by an analyst: “When Huawei came out with this high-end phone—and this is its flagship—with no U.S. content, that made a pretty big statement.”

The title didn't claim that Huawei, for all of its phones, had not used any American chip. It claimed that some of its new phones don't use any.

Your claim that "it's (sic) graph shows significant usage of US chips" is wrong. The table shows that for every component that was built by an American firm, they have a non-American alternative. Sometimes American providers are still listed, but the table is not quantitative, so the American chips part still used may be lower than 5%, for all we know after reading this.

Re: Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a few Natives on Twitter who say similar things about the US -- only talking about real property, not intellectual property -- and who would like their land back.

This is the weakest whataboutism I've ever seen

It's not whataboutism. So that might be why.

Re: Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips

#57
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't actually have any idea what you are saying.

They're saying that your comment is irrelevant because you're comparing current issues between the USA and China with issues between the USA and Native Americans in a completely different time period. Today's morals aren't the same as they were hundreds of years ago, so it doesn't make sense to excuse current IP theft in China by pointing out historical theft of land by the USA.

From what I gather, Natives don't see that theft as historical. They see it as still ongoing.

Re: Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips

#58
post #40

This is really impressive for Huawei. I do not mean to say that the trade war between China and the US is the same as the Cold War from before, but I have a fun tidbit to share. One of the more interesting theories I heard for why the US won the Cold War is because Russia struggled to develop IC technology. The Russians were masters of espionage, and I would even give them the edge in mechanical engineering, but the…

I think that electronics/computers by itself do not have much to do with with the fall of soviet union. USSR fell because: 1. its economic model was dysfunctional and a failure 2. Its moderate leaders (aka Gorbachev and his allies), decided to dismantle it, as they realized the model was a failure, and their only other option was to become extremely repressive, roll out tanks and kill people. (north korea is an examp…

When there was a referendum asking the people in all reoublics whether to keep the Soviet Union or dismantle it, the overwhelming majority, 70+ percent, voted to keep it. The leadership dismantled it anyway. When asking why, it usually is useful to ask cui bono.

Re: Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips

#59

Articles whose content contradict their headlines are rather quite frustrating. The title is "Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips" But the article itself states: "While Huawei hasn’t stopped using American chips entirely, it has reduced its reliance on U.S. suppliers or eliminated U.S. chips in phones launched since May" And it's graph shows significant usage of US chips. I'm sure Huawei is tryi…

I think that if you frame it in the context of “class war”, it all makes sense. E.g. there is the Taiwan as corporate interests and Taiwan the people.

The corporate interests don’t give a rat’s ass about who has ultimate sovereignty, or democracy, or human rights. They can’t. It’s systematic and by-design. Corporations only care about profit. As long as there is profit to be made, they wouldn’t care if Taiwan gets annexed by Mainland China.

The people, however, may have different ideas.

So we’re not really talking about “short-sightedness” here. We’re talking about different entities of vastly different wealth and power, within the same country, having different perspectives on the same “problem”. The rich and powerful have liberty; they probably have wealth hidden away and companies set up in multiple countries. They can have plan Bs, lots of them. The rest of the population, however, is stuck.

Re: Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips

#60

Articles whose content contradict their headlines are rather quite frustrating. The title is "Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips" But the article itself states: "While Huawei hasn’t stopped using American chips entirely, it has reduced its reliance on U.S. suppliers or eliminated U.S. chips in phones launched since May" And it's graph shows significant usage of US chips. I'm sure Huawei is tryi…

The headline doesn't say they've made every single one of their smartphones without US parts.

You are reading something into the headline that it doesn't claim.

It doesn't contradict that story.....

Headline: Huawei Manages to Make Smartphones Without American Chips

The second sentence from the story: Huawei’s latest phone, which it unveiled in September—the Mate 30 with a curved display and wide-angle cameras that competes with Apple Inc.’s iPhone 11—contained no U.S. parts, according to an analysis by UBS and Fomalhaut Techno Solutions, a Japanese technology lab that took the device apart to inspect its insides.

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