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Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

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Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#51

Post by ergothus »

pizza wrote: post #37

I recall reading a CNN scrolling ticker headline about the current European heatwave that said ~5% of European homes/offices have AC. The DOE says 3/4 of American homes have AC, and furthermore, AC uses 6% of all electricity generated in the United States, quite staggering imo and a lot more than I would have expected. Without AC, a lot of America would just be too unbearable to support some major communities. [0] ht…

One thing about human life that is remarkable is the dramatic range of climates we can survive in, compared to other species. Makes us forget that it is entirely possible to have climates that we CAN'T survive in (and even more that we wouldn't thrive in).

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#52

Post by golemiprague »

crispyporkbites wrote: post #27
jorblumesea wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "threatened". Sure, humans will continue to exist, we won't go extinct, at least not globally. But we're looking at local and possibly global societal collapse. If we're back 500 years in the past developmentally and technologically, that's a huge deal. Maybe even if you survive, can you go back to a world without vaccines, antibiotics and mass communication?

Do you think we can lose 500 years of tech development globally? I can see some areas becoming challenging and definitely a slowdown in progress but it seems unlikely that all this knowledge will evaporate

[dead]

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#53

Post by bobthepanda »

boobsbr wrote: post #45
pizza wrote: post #37

I recall reading a CNN scrolling ticker headline about the current European heatwave that said ~5% of European homes/offices have AC. The DOE says 3/4 of American homes have AC, and furthermore, AC uses 6% of all electricity generated in the United States, quite staggering imo and a lot more than I would have expected. Without AC, a lot of America would just be too unbearable to support some major communities. [0] ht…

I'm seriously tempted, but at the same time, I remember that it would generate MORE heat outside to cool my bedroom. And the surge in electricity would be probably supplied from burning gas or coal. I feel conflicted.

Anecdotally, Hong Kong is extremely air conditioned (to the point where it gets a little chilly) and the outside is unbearable when I've been during the summer months.

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#54

Post by Scoundreller »

pizza wrote: post #37

I recall reading a CNN scrolling ticker headline about the current European heatwave that said ~5% of European homes/offices have AC. The DOE says 3/4 of American homes have AC, and furthermore, AC uses 6% of all electricity generated in the United States, quite staggering imo and a lot more than I would have expected. Without AC, a lot of America would just be too unbearable to support some major communities. [0] ht…

I felt like 6% was quite low.

A/C is one of the highest wattage circuits that homes have, and it runs for a lot more hours than similar circuits (hot water or cooktops/ovens).

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#55

Post by odiroot »

pizza wrote: post #37

I recall reading a CNN scrolling ticker headline about the current European heatwave that said ~5% of European homes/offices have AC. The DOE says 3/4 of American homes have AC, and furthermore, AC uses 6% of all electricity generated in the United States, quite staggering imo and a lot more than I would have expected. Without AC, a lot of America would just be too unbearable to support some major communities. [0] ht…

Why would you pay to install and maintain AC if we (in Central Europe) literally have 2 weeks of real hot summer (about a month recently though)?

It would literally be a waste of money.

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#56

Post by AnimalMuppet »

summerdown2 wrote: post #41
andrewstuart wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that certainty is what I am challenging. And your response is precisely the problem - people think only government can solve this. But government has not, will not and cannot solve it. We need to move beyond government as the solution. The first step in that is to loosen up your certainty that only via government can anything large scale happen.

I'm not sure what you're implying. You seem to be missing out the bit describing which non-governmental actor can fix this. The first issue is that everyone else thinks only government can solve this. If you say governments can't, but have no other solution, you're essentially saying "no-one can do this." Which, while depressing, isn't going to achieve much. The second issue is that, clearly, governments could actual…

> Resolving global warming is actually possible with our current resources and technology.

Really? We'd all love to see a plan.

Or by "resolving" did you mean "holding it to only a 2 degree rise"?

> They most likely aren't going to.

Yeah... I think that's kind of andrewstuart's point. They aren't going to. So, given that they aren't going to, what's the next move?

> You seem to be missing out the bit describing which non-governmental actor can fix this.

andrewstuart may not know. I certainly don't. But if the government isn't going to fix it, then the correct move is to stop expecting that the government is going to fix it. I don't know what else to do, you don't, and andrewstuart doesn't. But maybe we ought to start thinking like we've got to figure out how to solve it, because the government isn't going to.

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#57

Post by mrep »

boobsbr wrote: post #45
pizza wrote: post #37

I recall reading a CNN scrolling ticker headline about the current European heatwave that said ~5% of European homes/offices have AC. The DOE says 3/4 of American homes have AC, and furthermore, AC uses 6% of all electricity generated in the United States, quite staggering imo and a lot more than I would have expected. Without AC, a lot of America would just be too unbearable to support some major communities. [0] ht…

I'm seriously tempted, but at the same time, I remember that it would generate MORE heat outside to cool my bedroom. And the surge in electricity would be probably supplied from burning gas or coal. I feel conflicted.

> I remember that it would generate MORE heat outside to cool my bedroom.

That's not really an issue: "For a 2014 paper, Francisco Salamanca and colleagues at Arizona State University modeled the effects of air conditioning on surface air temps in Phoenix. They found a nighttime increase of about 2°F (and nothing much during the day)" [0].

If it is powered by gas or coal though, that wouldn't be good.

[0]: https://www.popsci.com/ask-us-anything-does-using-ac-make-it...

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#58

Post by RickS »

odiroot wrote: post #55
pizza wrote: post #37

I recall reading a CNN scrolling ticker headline about the current European heatwave that said ~5% of European homes/offices have AC. The DOE says 3/4 of American homes have AC, and furthermore, AC uses 6% of all electricity generated in the United States, quite staggering imo and a lot more than I would have expected. Without AC, a lot of America would just be too unbearable to support some major communities. [0] ht…

Why would you pay to install and maintain AC if we (in Central Europe) literally have 2 weeks of real hot summer (about a month recently though)? It would literally be a waste of money.

Window mounted AC units are $100 - $200. It sits in a closet except for the 2 months a year that Seattle requires AC. A proper central air system would be overkill, but the small one is worth it.

I wonder if window / removable units factor into the DOE's 75% number. From a real estate recordkeeping perspective, my home does not have AC, despite the previous owner permanently building a window unit into the side of the house. If they're not counted, the real number of American homes with AC could be well north of 75%.

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#59

Post by xwdv »

mikeash wrote: post #34
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #12

IIRC there's around 7m of sea level rise tied up in Greenland ice, and it's already melting remarkably quickly. Now add the wildfires and it seems like it's escalating dangerously out of control. While a tipping point tips, government action is still conspicuously absent, and countries (well Russia and Canada mainly) are trying to nail their continental shelf claims in the Arctic for oil exploration.

We’re going straight from “we don’t really know if something is happening” to “it’s too late anyway so why bother” without going through the troublesome “we should try to stop this” phase.

If the world were a fine place worth fighting for, maybe you’d have a point.

But increasingly, I just look around, see the news, see the social media, and think why bother? Humanity will never be anything more than this. Things seem to be wrapping up, don’t have kids, don’t try to save the world, just savor what is left till it’s gone.

In the coming decades we will begin to see a loss in the knowledge of mankind, as people become more dependent on machines and fewer and fewer people know how to work them. Progress will begin to slow down, wealth will continue to consolidate, and people will be left working hard back-breaking jobs to sustain themselves. The world of the future will have more farmers and less engineers, and even fewer people who even understand code and how to write it.

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#60

Post by andrewstuart »

majormajor wrote: post #36
andrewstuart wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that certainty is what I am challenging. And your response is precisely the problem - people think only government can solve this. But government has not, will not and cannot solve it. We need to move beyond government as the solution. The first step in that is to loosen up your certainty that only via government can anything large scale happen.

> The first step in that is to loosen up your certainty that only via government can anything large scale happen. If you want to do that, you're gonna need to present some plausible alternatives... otherwise you're not truly "challenging" anything so much as saying "this is a belief you have that I will not provide any evidence to counter but merely point out."

I don't agree that I need to come up with anything beyond raising the idea that we should stop thinking that government can/will solve this.

Once many people come to accept the truth of this, many minds will think in directions other than obsessing about government and what it is not doing.

People tend to disagree very strongly with new ideas. You can see that right here - this thread is voted to the bottom of the HN topic. That's OK. It's an idea that once planted cannot be unthought - the government is not the solution. Let's start thinking of how we can solve this without any dependence on government.

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