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Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

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Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#41

Post by summerdown2 »

andrewstuart wrote: post #16
noja wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Governments are the only people who can enact laws to move large numbers of people as a group to act.

Well that certainty is what I am challenging. And your response is precisely the problem - people think only government can solve this. But government has not, will not and cannot solve it. We need to move beyond government as the solution. The first step in that is to loosen up your certainty that only via government can anything large scale happen.

I'm not sure what you're implying. You seem to be missing out the bit describing which non-governmental actor can fix this.

The first issue is that everyone else thinks only government can solve this. If you say governments can't, but have no other solution, you're essentially saying "no-one can do this." Which, while depressing, isn't going to achieve much.

The second issue is that, clearly, governments could actually fix this. They most likely aren't going to. But the capital and human investments needed aren't impossible. It's not like a neolithic tribe building a computer for example. Resolving global warming is actually possible with our current resources and technology.

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#42

Post by apocalyptic0n3 »

andrewstuart wrote: post #16
noja wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Governments are the only people who can enact laws to move large numbers of people as a group to act.

Well that certainty is what I am challenging. And your response is precisely the problem - people think only government can solve this. But government has not, will not and cannot solve it. We need to move beyond government as the solution. The first step in that is to loosen up your certainty that only via government can anything large scale happen.

You keep saying that government cannot do this. All the replies say that regulation, labeling, bans, and widespread legal action are the only things that can prompt the world at large to act, and those have to be enacted by government by definition.

So what is the alternative you are suggesting?

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#43

Post by tacLog »

hydroreadsstuff wrote: post #31
pulisse wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just don’t see how we’re getting out of this alive. Even worst case predictions for climate change don't imply the human race will be threatened. But what we will see is massive geopolitical disruption as previously habitable regions become uninhabitable. What happens when coastal Myanmar is underwater or southern India experiences 130 degree days on a regular basis? Climate change is going to make itself felt ov…

Slightly off-topic: Is there data on how many people don’t put children into our world because of this?

I don't know, but I really feel like we should be talking about this. Migrant cries and famines tend to cause war. It seems like a curl joke to raise a child in this world of plenty only to destroy it before their adulthood.

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#44

Post by jorblumesea »

crispyporkbites wrote: post #27
jorblumesea wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "threatened". Sure, humans will continue to exist, we won't go extinct, at least not globally. But we're looking at local and possibly global societal collapse. If we're back 500 years in the past developmentally and technologically, that's a huge deal. Maybe even if you survive, can you go back to a world without vaccines, antibiotics and mass communication?

Do you think we can lose 500 years of tech development globally? I can see some areas becoming challenging and definitely a slowdown in progress but it seems unlikely that all this knowledge will evaporate

I don't have a good answer to that question, I'm not sure anyone does. But if society collapses, much of that knowledge goes with it. Our society is incredibly complex and fragile, with a very high degree of specialization. That makes us vulnerable to these kinds of issues.

While the "dark ages" were hardly dark and ignorant, the collapse of the Roman empire meant advanced road building and concrete were lost for 1500 years. So there is some historical precedent here.

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#45

Post by boobsbr »

pizza wrote: post #37

I recall reading a CNN scrolling ticker headline about the current European heatwave that said ~5% of European homes/offices have AC. The DOE says 3/4 of American homes have AC, and furthermore, AC uses 6% of all electricity generated in the United States, quite staggering imo and a lot more than I would have expected. Without AC, a lot of America would just be too unbearable to support some major communities. [0] ht…

I'm seriously tempted, but at the same time, I remember that it would generate MORE heat outside to cool my bedroom. And the surge in electricity would be probably supplied from burning gas or coal. I feel conflicted.

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#46

Post by chrisco255 »

mirimir wrote: post #22
revscat wrote: post #4

This seems like the perfect time to panic. I just don’t see how we’re getting out of this alive.

Well, I'm certainly not getting out alive. And so far, nobody that I know of has. Maybe someday, one day, though. But yes, you likely meant "we're" in the sense of the human race, or modern technological society. I really doubt that the human race is seriously at risk. Although global population could drop substantially. As part of modern technological society crashing. So it goes. It was probably inevitable. Edit: A…

Not getting how that's possible at all. An ice age would be far more devastating to the human race than a warming period. Crop yields are up:

1) https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/cornyl... 2) https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/riceyl...

Ok, so food looks safe and secure. Um, lets see, what are the other basic needs? Shelter? Water? We've had the rainiest year in 125 years: https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2019/05/08/united-sta...

So uhh...water looks good. We also happen to find ourselves on a planet that's covered in 70% water...so there's always that as a back up supply...

Hmm...maybe our 21st century sensibilities require energy as a basic necessity. We've got tons of resources for energy (more than ever in history).

Hmm. I'm really not seeing a reason to panic.

EDIT: Sea level is rising at 3.3 mm a year: https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/sea-level/

Look, I do think some coastal communities may need to engineer some solutions to prevent damage, or some cities may need to "retract" inland...but it's not like ocean levels have ever been static. http://www.kwaad.net/SeaLevel-MiddleAges-LittleIceAge.html

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#47

Post by seren »

landryraccoon wrote: post #25
pulisse wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just don’t see how we’re getting out of this alive. Even worst case predictions for climate change don't imply the human race will be threatened. But what we will see is massive geopolitical disruption as previously habitable regions become uninhabitable. What happens when coastal Myanmar is underwater or southern India experiences 130 degree days on a regular basis? Climate change is going to make itself felt ov…

If extreme political instability from climate change leads to nuclear war, that could threaten human extinction.

With melting Himalayan glaciers, I am a bit worried on how Pakistan, India and China will deal with water rarefaction.

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#48

Post by mirimir »

chrisco255 wrote: post #46
mirimir wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I'm certainly not getting out alive. And so far, nobody that I know of has. Maybe someday, one day, though. But yes, you likely meant "we're" in the sense of the human race, or modern technological society. I really doubt that the human race is seriously at risk. Although global population could drop substantially. As part of modern technological society crashing. So it goes. It was probably inevitable. Edit: A…

Not getting how that's possible at all. An ice age would be far more devastating to the human race than a warming period. Crop yields are up: 1) https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/cornyl... 2) https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/riceyl... Ok, so food looks safe and secure. Um, lets see, what are the other basic needs? Shelter? Water? We've had the rainiest year in 125 years: https…

Time will tell.

Honestly, I don't care much, because I'll be dead.

But I do expect considerable lulz, before I die.

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#49

Post by faitswulff »

ianbicking wrote: post #29
Zenst wrote: post #21

What I would like to see is a country average temperature record, we often see high temps, some may be a small hotspot, others may well encompass the entire country. With that, are heat waves becoming larger in size and by that - area covered? Asking as from my experience in life, they kinda feel like they are.

It's more vague and visual than what you describe, but this makes pretty compelling visualizations: https://showyourstripes.info/

This combined worldwide graphic is far more striking: http://www.climate-lab-book.ac.uk/files/2019/06/all_countrie...

From: http://www.climate-lab-book.ac.uk/2019/showyourstripes/

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#50

Post by chrisco255 »

andrewstuart wrote: post #9
revscat wrote: post #4

This seems like the perfect time to panic. I just don’t see how we’re getting out of this alive.

I'm on your wavelength. The biggest, most gigantic problem, amongst many, is that the food supply seems in serious danger.

No, it's not at all. Look, crop yields are way up in the past few years:

Rice yields are up 40% since 1988: https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/riceyl...

Corn's up 60%: https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/cornyl...

Wheat is up 48% since '88: https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/wwyld....

Cattle inventory looks steady: https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Cattle/inv.php

Yeah...hmm, not seeing a reason to panic about food supply.

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