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New study provides evidence that we need different drugs for men and women

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Re: New study provides evidence that we need different drugs for men and women

#51

Post by coldacid »

belorn wrote: post #35

The article starts out with saying that drug development begins with studies on male rats and mice, but then goes on to describe difference the biological pathways for pain in men and women. That creates some obvious question. How similar is the pain pathways between humans and rats, and is it more similar than between women and men? There should basically be 6 sources of differences. Animal M vs Human M, Animal F vs…

Different model animals are picked for different types of medical studies, or at least they are supposed to be, based on similarities between the model and humans within the context of the functionalities under test.

Re: New study provides evidence that we need different drugs for men and women

#52

Post by omnomnomtea »

wtdata wrote: post #42

It is interesting, but since quite a few examples here pertain the brain. By accepting the conclusions of the article we must also accept the idea - presently under attack - that there are indeed clear biological differences between the male and female brains.

I don't think it's as black-and-white as that.

There can be statistical differences on average, without requiring that every brain is unambiguously classifiable as "male" or "female" on a biological level based on that trait.

For example- if a drug works well for 80% of women and 15% of men, that implies that there are some men whose brains utilize the "female" pain pathway and some women who use the "male" pain pathway. It also suggests that that drug might be a good first line of treatment for female patients and a secondary or tertiary line of treatment for male patients. Trying to classify brains like this is like trying to classify sex based on height- on average it sort of works, but there's enough overlap between the heights of women and men that you can't actually do it reliably on an individual level.

So tl;dr I don't think that "clear biological differences between the male and female brains" is actually a reasonable conclusion that can be drawn from this research.

Re: New study provides evidence that we need different drugs for men and women

#53

Post by tomlock »

apta wrote: post #49
tomlock wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like a reasonable comment to me, and not an objection to the finding.

Biology (i.e. XX or XY or other less common variants) doesn't care about what someone thinks they are.

Ah, so you agree that gender isn't binary.

Re: New study provides evidence that we need different drugs for men and women

#54

Post by collyw »

rygxqpbsngav wrote: post #47
adrianN wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know very much about medicine either, but it's easy to find double blind studies that show efficacy for all kinds of medical procedures. Is there anything similar for Ayurveda?

That's not how it works. Ayurveda is not a medical pharmacy. It's a way of treating individuals. Like I said earlier, each case is different. There are no common medicines other than a few (6 or 7), which are known to work for any body type. For anything that doesn't get cured through them needs customized medicine. I am no expert either. But there are no lobbyist pharmas backing studies on Ayurveda medicine as they…

Of course you could study it. Give 50% of the participants individualized Arurdvedic medicine and 50% the standard medicine. Give both groups the consultation Adudveric style as a control measure. See if there is a statistically significant difference in results, then you have an answer. (Your starting point will be people with the same problems/symptoms).

Or am I missing something?

(Your answer comes across as implying "no one is the same we can't possibly disprove / prove this stuff")

Re: New study provides evidence that we need different drugs for men and women

#55

Post by collyw »

tomlock wrote: post #53
apta wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Biology (i.e. XX or XY or other less common variants) doesn't care about what someone thinks they are.

Ah, so you agree that gender isn't binary.

stop using statistical anomalies to make your point

Re: New study provides evidence that we need different drugs for men and women

#56

Post by collyw »

dang wrote: post #14
mamon wrote: post #6

Are doctors even allowed to ask patients about their gender? That's sensitive private info, right? Also, people are free to choose their own gender and even change their mind about it every other week, so the therapy would need to be adjusted accordingly. /s

Please don't post flamebait to HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

It's not really flame bait in todays culture.

Re: New study provides evidence that we need different drugs for men and women

#57

Post by anon12345690 »

jonnybgood wrote: post #41
anon12345690 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the people who change gender disagree, there are tons of trans people and supporters who dont believe in biological sex

Okay? They’ll be wrong too.

uh thats what the activists believe and its what the first comment was talking about. people in europe are being arrested because they used the "wrong" sex.

of course theres a difference but if everyone accepted that then there wouldnt be a big problem now

Re: New study provides evidence that we need different drugs for men and women

#58

Post by klyrs »

apta wrote: post #49
tomlock wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like a reasonable comment to me, and not an objection to the finding.

Biology (i.e. XX or XY or other less common variants) doesn't care about what someone thinks they are.

Biology very well might care if there's a preponderance of estrogen or testosterone in one's bloodstream, however.

Re: New study provides evidence that we need different drugs for men and women

#59

Post by freshm087 »

omnomnomtea wrote: post #52
wtdata wrote: post #42

It is interesting, but since quite a few examples here pertain the brain. By accepting the conclusions of the article we must also accept the idea - presently under attack - that there are indeed clear biological differences between the male and female brains.

I don't think it's as black-and-white as that. There can be statistical differences on average, without requiring that every brain is unambiguously classifiable as "male" or "female" on a biological level based on that trait. For example- if a drug works well for 80% of women and 15% of men, that implies that there are some men whose brains utilize the "female" pain pathway and some women who use the "male" pain path…

Yes, except practically nobody claims that it's black-and-what. This idea which is under attack (for which James Damore got fired, for example) is that measuring equality by setting 50/50 female-to-male ratio as an ideal doesn't reflect reality, because in general sex differences very likely exist beyond culture, and they logically should lead to different representation in various fields of occupation.

Re: New study provides evidence that we need different drugs for men and women

#60

Post by dang »

collyw wrote: post #56
dang wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't post flamebait to HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

It's not really flame bait in todays culture.

Maybe not, but commenters here are still asked to do better.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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