Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger • Hacker News Board

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#51

Post by rizzin » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 6:15 PM UTC

mbowcutt wrote: post #35

Might be a stupid question, but why is it always Telegram that gets talked about? Are other secure communications services like Signal, Keybase, etc already blocked?

In the context of Russia, the company that made Telegram is headed by Pavel Durov, creator of the main Russian social network, vk.com. Don't know the exact history, but ultimately the social network ownership was transferred to a large IT corp, and Pavel Durov had some falling out with big wigs, and left Russia to create Telegram.

He is a kind of a rebellious figure in modern Russia, and, as younger generation generally dislikes the regime, he is viewed favorably, and a lot of Russians use Telegram because of that.

So blocking Telegram would be a "we're stronger than you" move by the government.

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#52

Post by amaccuish » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 6:20 PM UTC

aaomidi wrote: post #27

This just further shows the need for encrypted SNI fields for TLS 1.3. We need to hide services properly and make the cost of blocking a single service very expensive.

Telegram doesn't use TLS.

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#53

Post by s73v3r_ » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 6:23 PM UTC

azangru wrote: post #43

SEJeff wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it is Telegram's fault for what your Government did? I'm sorry you have to live under this, but I think it is maybe the Government's fault for doing those things.

> So it is Telegram's fault for what your Government did? It is not Telegram's fault that the Russian government decided to ban it. This unfortunate decision is wholly on the government. But it is not entirely clear to me whether it shares the blame for what happened next, namely for the collateral damage that occurred during their grand stand against the Russian government. I think it might actually be an interestin…

Blaming the victim is never a good look.

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#54

Post by s73v3r_ » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 6:24 PM UTC

azangru wrote: post #29

anonymfus wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is some Stockholm syndrome thinking. I am Russian and I like this escalation because it makes more people to hate Putin making overthrow of his regime more likely.

> That is some Stockholm syndrome thinking. Stockholm syndrome is a feeling of affection towards your captor. I do not feel the slightest bit of affection towards our government. I despise them. But I do feel it may be in the captive's interest not to annoy the captor too much; better yet, not to attract his attention at all.

So it's Battered Spouse Syndrome, then.

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#55

Post by ZoomZoomZoom » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 6:28 PM UTC

rizzin wrote: post #51

mbowcutt wrote: post #35

Might be a stupid question, but why is it always Telegram that gets talked about? Are other secure communications services like Signal, Keybase, etc already blocked?

In the context of Russia, the company that made Telegram is headed by Pavel Durov, creator of the main Russian social network, vk.com. Don't know the exact history, but ultimately the social network ownership was transferred to a large IT corp, and Pavel Durov had some falling out with big wigs, and left Russia to create Telegram. He is a kind of a rebellious figure in modern Russia, and, as younger generation genera…

>> a lot of Russians use Telegram because of that.

This is a big overstatement.

Telegram received an initial traction from the vk.com userbase. It has very little to do with either the functionality (except may be the channels) or an ideological stance of he creators. VK simply advertised the messenger actively at launch.

Practically all other IMs (except the earlier WhatsApp and Viber) have almost no userbase in Russia.

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#56

Post by pixelperfect » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 6:29 PM UTC

anonymfus wrote: post #26

azangru wrote: post #23

I am Russian, and I do not use Telegram, I and do not really know the technology that it relies on, so my opinion is probably worthless, but I can't get rid of the feeling that if Telegram just left the scene quietly and peacefully when the Russian authorities announced the ban, things would have been much simpler and yes, better. The authorities would have pretended that their mission had been accomplished. People w…

That is some Stockholm syndrome thinking. I am Russian and I like this escalation because it makes more people to hate Putin making overthrow of his regime more likely.

> I am Russian and I like this escalation because it makes more people to hate Putin making overthrow of his regime more likely.

Is there any chance of that happening? I am not Russian but my impression is that a large majority of Russians favor Putin and it's hard to imagine how he could be overthrown.

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#57

Post by ZoomZoomZoom » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 6:35 PM UTC

pixelperfect wrote: post #56

anonymfus wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is some Stockholm syndrome thinking. I am Russian and I like this escalation because it makes more people to hate Putin making overthrow of his regime more likely.

> I am Russian and I like this escalation because it makes more people to hate Putin making overthrow of his regime more likely. Is there any chance of that happening? I am not Russian but my impression is that a large majority of Russians favor Putin and it's hard to imagine how he could be overthrown.

The chance is always there, probably not at this moment, though. Oh, an not on any grounds like censorship or privacy violation, these are not valued enough.

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#58

Post by jes » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 6:35 PM UTC

codedokode wrote: post #46

mbowcutt wrote: post #35

Might be a stupid question, but why is it always Telegram that gets talked about? Are other secure communications services like Signal, Keybase, etc already blocked?

Signal or Keybase are not blocked in Russia. I suppose that is because they don't have many users like Telegram. WhatsApp is known to comply with Russian legislation (and ironically several of its addresses were accidentally blocked while trying to disrupt Telegram service).

Can you and would you say more about how WhatsApp accommodates Russian legislation?

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#59

Post by sebleon » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 6:40 PM UTC

gerhardi wrote: post #15

throwaway99990 wrote: post #12

I emigrated 15 years ago from there to the US. It's been fine, but I just visited Russia recently for a month and very much prefer Russian culture to that of the West. I'm thinking of going back permanently but probably won't. I think blocking various internet sites/services is the only way to preserve the cultural differences and stop the brain drain.

Oh my god.. So you really think that a totalitarian control over what the country's population is allowed to view on the Internet is somehow a good thing and a way to stop brain drain? How come other countries manage to have their cultures flourish on the age of the Internet? I just can't see this kind of blocking bringing anything good for Russia..

I'm surprised more countries don't block Google and Facebook. These two sites are extremely powerful in their ability to shape public opinion, hard to imagine why so many governments are letting American corporations shape citizens' minds.

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#60

Post by miaklesp » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 6:53 PM UTC

pixelperfect wrote: post #56

anonymfus wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is some Stockholm syndrome thinking. I am Russian and I like this escalation because it makes more people to hate Putin making overthrow of his regime more likely.

> I am Russian and I like this escalation because it makes more people to hate Putin making overthrow of his regime more likely. Is there any chance of that happening? I am not Russian but my impression is that a large majority of Russians favor Putin and it's hard to imagine how he could be overthrown.

They don't. They just don't have power to do anything about it.