Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger • Hacker News Board

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#21

Post by neuromantik8086 » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 4:51 PM UTC

kingofhdds wrote: post #19

throwaway99990 wrote: post #12

I emigrated 15 years ago from there to the US. It's been fine, but I just visited Russia recently for a month and very much prefer Russian culture to that of the West. I'm thinking of going back permanently but probably won't. I think blocking various internet sites/services is the only way to preserve the cultural differences and stop the brain drain.

Whole "West" is full of cultural differences, despite the internet is not broken. Actually, there are more well-preserved cultural differences between TN, and NY in States than between most places in Russia (except maybe Tuva, and other poorly connected regions in Siberia, and Arctic) due to centralist, paternalist, and chauvinistic policies of Moscow internet haters.

As a corollary, the only cultural differences that have actively disappeared have usually been due to decidedly non-Internet causes (e.g., students being hit with a ruler if they spoke Cajun French in Louisiana after World War II, non-Amish Germans deliberately shedding their language and speaking English to avoid anti-German sentiment after the outbreak of World War I, etc).

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#22

Post by aaomidi » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 4:52 PM UTC

partyfaker wrote: post #14

charlesdm wrote: post #11

Didn't know you could do deep packet inspection on encrypted traffic? Anyone who can shed some light on how they might be doing this? I'm curious.

Telegram uses it's own custom MTProto protocol. Although the traffic is encrypted, it is identifiable as Telegram traffic (fixed structure, identifiable prefix for packets). There's an outcry for them to use TLS but I didn't see that they said anything about that. Here's a nice article for more info: https://blog.susanka.eu/how-telegram-obfuscates-its-mtproto-...

It's not like TLS would've fixed this. Iran is blocking Telegram very easily.

If they also used anything with TLS 1.3 or HTTPS with TLS 1.2, the plaintext SNI would've been enough to detect Telegram.

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#23

Post by azangru » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 4:54 PM UTC

I am Russian, and I do not use Telegram, I and do not really know the technology that it relies on, so my opinion is probably worthless, but I can't get rid of the feeling that if Telegram just left the scene quietly and peacefully when the Russian authorities announced the ban, things would have been much simpler and yes, better. The authorities would have pretended that their mission had been accomplished. People who still really needed Telegram could continue to use it with the help of proxies or vpns. And the mayhem that occurred when the Russian internet watchdog started blocking millions of IPs would never have happened.

Instead we had this ridiculous escalation causing the disruption of the normal internet communications for a while, and promising even more sinister problems in the future.

And Gitbooks still don't work properly here :-(

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#24

Post by village-idiot » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 4:59 PM UTC

azangru wrote: post #23

I am Russian, and I do not use Telegram, I and do not really know the technology that it relies on, so my opinion is probably worthless, but I can't get rid of the feeling that if Telegram just left the scene quietly and peacefully when the Russian authorities announced the ban, things would have been much simpler and yes, better. The authorities would have pretended that their mission had been accomplished. People w…

I think it's in Telegrams best interest to make a big deal out of this.

More positively, not going quietly into the night when faced with state repression is pretty much in line with their ideals. I can totally see why they'd want to fight it out.

On the cynical side, grand standing here is great for PR.

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#25

Post by village-idiot » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 5:01 PM UTC

throwaway99990 wrote: post #12

I emigrated 15 years ago from there to the US. It's been fine, but I just visited Russia recently for a month and very much prefer Russian culture to that of the West. I'm thinking of going back permanently but probably won't. I think blocking various internet sites/services is the only way to preserve the cultural differences and stop the brain drain.

At least the trolls are using easily identifiable user accounts now.

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#26

Post by anonymfus » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 5:02 PM UTC

azangru wrote: post #23

I am Russian, and I do not use Telegram, I and do not really know the technology that it relies on, so my opinion is probably worthless, but I can't get rid of the feeling that if Telegram just left the scene quietly and peacefully when the Russian authorities announced the ban, things would have been much simpler and yes, better. The authorities would have pretended that their mission had been accomplished. People w…

That is some Stockholm syndrome thinking.

I am Russian and I like this escalation because it makes more people to hate Putin making overthrow of his regime more likely.

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#27

Post by aaomidi » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 5:02 PM UTC

This just further shows the need for encrypted SNI fields for TLS 1.3.

We need to hide services properly and make the cost of blocking a single service very expensive.

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#28

Post by village-idiot » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 5:03 PM UTC

kingofhdds wrote: post #19

throwaway99990 wrote: post #12

I emigrated 15 years ago from there to the US. It's been fine, but I just visited Russia recently for a month and very much prefer Russian culture to that of the West. I'm thinking of going back permanently but probably won't. I think blocking various internet sites/services is the only way to preserve the cultural differences and stop the brain drain.

Whole "West" is full of cultural differences, despite the internet is not broken. Actually, there are more well-preserved cultural differences between TN, and NY in States than between most places in Russia (except maybe Tuva, and other poorly connected regions in Siberia, and Arctic) due to centralist, paternalist, and chauvinistic policies of Moscow internet haters.

To expand on your point, anyone talking about "Western" culture (e.g. America, Europe, and typically former crown territories. That selection in its own right is suspect as hell) is painting with a brush so wide to be either meaningless or straight up deceptive. There are large cultural, political, legal, and economic differences between countries in that grouping and even inside said countries. California is not like Texas is not like Ohio is really not like Spain or Germany.

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#29

Post by azangru » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 5:06 PM UTC

anonymfus wrote: post #26

azangru wrote: post #23

I am Russian, and I do not use Telegram, I and do not really know the technology that it relies on, so my opinion is probably worthless, but I can't get rid of the feeling that if Telegram just left the scene quietly and peacefully when the Russian authorities announced the ban, things would have been much simpler and yes, better. The authorities would have pretended that their mission had been accomplished. People w…

That is some Stockholm syndrome thinking. I am Russian and I like this escalation because it makes more people to hate Putin making overthrow of his regime more likely.

> That is some Stockholm syndrome thinking.

Stockholm syndrome is a feeling of affection towards your captor.

I do not feel the slightest bit of affection towards our government. I despise them. But I do feel it may be in the captive's interest not to annoy the captor too much; better yet, not to attract his attention at all.

Re: Russia tries more precise technology to block Telegram messenger

#30

Post by azangru » Fri, Aug 31, 2018, 5:10 PM UTC

village-idiot wrote: post #24

azangru wrote: post #23

I am Russian, and I do not use Telegram, I and do not really know the technology that it relies on, so my opinion is probably worthless, but I can't get rid of the feeling that if Telegram just left the scene quietly and peacefully when the Russian authorities announced the ban, things would have been much simpler and yes, better. The authorities would have pretended that their mission had been accomplished. People w…

I think it's in Telegrams best interest to make a big deal out of this. More positively, not going quietly into the night when faced with state repression is pretty much in line with their ideals. I can totally see why they'd want to fight it out. On the cynical side, grand standing here is great for PR.

> I think it's in Telegrams best interest to make a big deal out of this. > On the cynical side, grand standing here is great for PR.

Totally, I get this. Pavel Durov even issued a statement at some point saying that Telegram's will keep defying the Russian authorities having the best interest of their users in mind. A veritable Robin Hood, wouldn't you know. I can't imagine how breaking of half the Internet that ensued could have been in the best interest of the public.