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Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

latimes.com

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Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#51

Post by taneq »

pnut wrote: post #32
HenryBemis wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For anyone who hasn’t already, I would strongly suggest that you read/listen the “Rich Dad, Poor Dad”. It speaks of the “Rat Race”, where once you increase your income by a fraction, you almost immediately and subconsciously adjust your needs to absorb that increase. I think this is one of the books that everyone over the age of 15-17 should read as it gives a crash-course on the fine art of making money. This book,…

I'm not saying there isn't usable advice in that book, which I have read, but in full disclosure, the book's author, Robert Kiyosaki, fictionalised most of the anecdotes contained within it. Additionally, he operates a real estate "investing" school that advocates and instructs semi-legal, morally questionable predatory practices. It is openly modelled after Trump University, Trump being Kiyosaki's business mentor an…

> Additionally, he operates a real estate "investing" school that advocates and instructs semi-legal, morally questionable predatory practices.

Yeah, it's 90% trivial platitudes about "buy low, sell high" and "invest your money wisely", and then a few pages about how he actually made his money (if that part is true, anyway): Haunt foreclosure auctions to flip the houses. Skeezy.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#52

Post by taneq »

Talyen42 wrote: post #6
jdhn wrote: post #5

"That money won’t disappear, of course—it will go into the pockets of workers, and then find its way back into the coffers of corporate America via higher sales." Do people really go out and spend money immediately if they get raises? Personally, if I get a raise, I may treat myself to something nice, but then I immediately go back to my old spending habits so I have more money to save.

The average person spends almost exactly as much as they make as income rises. It's a hedonic treadmill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill

I'm not sure how much room for hedonic advancement there is when average wage raises are almost exactly equal to inflation.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#53

Post by geezerjay »

sametmax wrote: post #11

And if you think it's bad, it's even worse in Europe. Taking the French example: I'm an freelancer, but I used to have a contract with an American company. They gave me 3x the salary most of my French colleagues would get, while keeping the exact same social advantages (they paid me through a French branch). However, to them, the salary was twice lower than what they would have paid for the same guy in the Valley. No…

That's so true. Employers in general complain that they can't buy filet mignon for the price of hot dogs, and that's suppose to be the employee's problem.

To make matters far worse, the industry in general pays lip service to on-the-job training and some employers also avoid junior/inexperienced developers, because they don't want to train anyone.

And don't get me started on the absolute cancer that are HR/outsourcing/body farm companies, the type that hires 3 HR technicians to dedicate themselves to bullshit naive techies to work for 50% of their actual market value and fire them as soon as they aren't indispensable.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#54

Post by mkohlmyr »

muse900 wrote: post #41
sametmax wrote: post #11

And if you think it's bad, it's even worse in Europe. Taking the French example: I'm an freelancer, but I used to have a contract with an American company. They gave me 3x the salary most of my French colleagues would get, while keeping the exact same social advantages (they paid me through a French branch). However, to them, the salary was twice lower than what they would have paid for the same guy in the Valley. No…

My example comes from Greece where I reside for the past 9 months. People owning touristic buisnesses on the islands are moaning about how much they need more staff and can't find any, and they are arguing why younger people tend to not work and just receive benefits instead of going to work. The argument here that they won't understand though is that, 1st they are paying very low. They are all willing to pay the min…

I wonder if it's quite as simple as being reducible to salary as a single (or majority) variable. I tend to think people are willing to work a poorly paid job if there was some kind of light at the end of the tunnel (career advancement, primarily). (As a casual outside observer, and with all due respect) My bet would be that a pervasive sense of pointlessness or helplessness in society is an equal partner along with low entry level salaries in the case of Greece and many countries that face similar struggles.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#55

Post by merinowool »

sametmax wrote: post #11

And if you think it's bad, it's even worse in Europe. Taking the French example: I'm an freelancer, but I used to have a contract with an American company. They gave me 3x the salary most of my French colleagues would get, while keeping the exact same social advantages (they paid me through a French branch). However, to them, the salary was twice lower than what they would have paid for the same guy in the Valley. No…

[flagged]

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#56

Post by sharemywin »

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #27
lkrubner wrote: post #4

It’s interesting how much momentum there is in these processes. After several decades of big wage gains, during the 1940s, 1950s, and 1960s, the nominal increases could not be stopped, even as the economy weakened in the 1970s and 1980s. Back then all the wage cuts had to done through inflation. Nowadays there is no inflation, and no momentum to restart wage increases. This part of the article says it right: “””The u…

Well, yeah. This is fully intended. It keeps the proletariat in tatters. With threats to food and lodging, they won't protest and won't rise up. It's a very effective means of control. Bread and circuses, people.

I thought Bread and circuses refers to the opposite. give the people just enough bread and circuses to keep them from rising up.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#57

Post by mistermann »

lkrubner wrote: post #4

It’s interesting how much momentum there is in these processes. After several decades of big wage gains, during the 1940s, 1950s, and 1960s, the nominal increases could not be stopped, even as the economy weakened in the 1970s and 1980s. Back then all the wage cuts had to done through inflation. Nowadays there is no inflation, and no momentum to restart wage increases. This part of the article says it right: “””The u…

> Nowadays there is no inflation

If you ignore most people's largest expense: housing costs, the price increases of which are "adjusted" away in inflation calculations.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#58

Post by Nursie »

sametmax wrote: post #11

And if you think it's bad, it's even worse in Europe. Taking the French example: I'm an freelancer, but I used to have a contract with an American company. They gave me 3x the salary most of my French colleagues would get, while keeping the exact same social advantages (they paid me through a French branch). However, to them, the salary was twice lower than what they would have paid for the same guy in the Valley. No…

I see this a lot in the UK, and it's why I'm now a contractor.

You will have 10 years experience, a relevant degree, security clearance and no boundaries when it comes to overtime.

We will pay you £35k!

The sad thing is, they will fill that position, with someone not very good, with low expectations and no confidence in themselves. And they will get mediocre work, which they expect.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#59

Post by Waterluvian »

maxerickson wrote: post #45
Waterluvian wrote: post #39

I worked for a Canadian company that's absolutely hemmoraging talent because they refuse to pay well. I'm now paid about 50% more to work remotely for a US company in an environment that is far far more fitting of my life goals of being with my kids as they grow up. It's beyond bizarre to watch them continue to refuse to pay anyone properly despite their imminent collapse.

Are they selling into a market that pays enough for them to raise wages? I'm not defending them there, just wondering if the imminent part of the collapse might be external.

That's completely fair. They're struggling in a lot of ways. They've always insisted that they're simply not underpaying for any external reason and claim that's what everyone is worth. But maybe the truth is that their model can't afford to pay engineers properly. Which is a pretty bad model for a tech startup. Because then all your talent leaves, which all but dooms you.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#60

Post by oblio »

Talyen42 wrote: post #6
jdhn wrote: post #5

"That money won’t disappear, of course—it will go into the pockets of workers, and then find its way back into the coffers of corporate America via higher sales." Do people really go out and spend money immediately if they get raises? Personally, if I get a raise, I may treat myself to something nice, but then I immediately go back to my old spending habits so I have more money to save.

The average person spends almost exactly as much as they make as income rises. It's a hedonic treadmill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill

I find this is way more prevalent in the US than in Europe.
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