Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more • Hacker News Board

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#11

Post by sametmax » Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 12:24 PM UTC

And if you think it's bad, it's even worse in Europe.

Taking the French example: I'm an freelancer, but I used to have a contract with an American company.

They gave me 3x the salary most of my French colleagues would get, while keeping the exact same social advantages (they paid me through a French branch).

However, to them, the salary was twice lower than what they would have paid for the same guy in the Valley.

Now as a freelancer, I move a lot from companies to companies, and I hear the same complaint over and over: we can't find good devs.

But when I look at the job offers they publish, it's full of buzzwords and cool attitude, yet the pay is not remotely matching the skills they are hiring for.

You want somebody speaking 2 tongues, coding expertly in 3 languages (e.g: server lang + js + css), knowing a bit of sysadmin, ergonomics, architectural design, data base, and capable of understanding your undocumented stack du jour + infra.

No, you can't pay that $2500 a month.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#12

Post by ge0rg » Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 12:26 PM UTC

saw-lau wrote: post #7

When accessing from The UK: Unfortunately, our website is currently unavailable in most European countries. We are engaged on the issue and committed to looking at options that support our full range of digital offerings to the EU market. We continue to identify technical compliance solutions that will provide all readers with our award-winning journalism.

You might want to indicate that this is a quote from the web site, not a statement of yours. I'd suggest to edit it and to add asterisks around the text to make it render in italics.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#13

Post by quantdev » Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 12:27 PM UTC

Talyen42 wrote: post #6

jdhn wrote: post #5

"That money won’t disappear, of course—it will go into the pockets of workers, and then find its way back into the coffers of corporate America via higher sales." Do people really go out and spend money immediately if they get raises? Personally, if I get a raise, I may treat myself to something nice, but then I immediately go back to my old spending habits so I have more money to save.

The average person spends almost exactly as much as they make as income rises. It's a hedonic treadmill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill

I don't think the hedonic treadmill or that link has anything to do with your statement "the average person spends almost exactly as they make as income rises." The hedonic treadmill says that happiness is eventually independent of income and savings. So, eventually, whether someone makes $1mm/year, saves none of it, makes $1mm/year, saves $500k, or makes $30k/year, saves none of it, s/he'll have the same happiness.

Also, your statement is false. The average higher-income person saves both more money on an absolute basis ($ amount) and on a percent-of-his/her-income basis.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#14

Post by HenryBemis » Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 12:27 PM UTC

Talyen42 wrote: post #6

jdhn wrote: post #5

"That money won’t disappear, of course—it will go into the pockets of workers, and then find its way back into the coffers of corporate America via higher sales." Do people really go out and spend money immediately if they get raises? Personally, if I get a raise, I may treat myself to something nice, but then I immediately go back to my old spending habits so I have more money to save.

The average person spends almost exactly as much as they make as income rises. It's a hedonic treadmill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill

For anyone who hasn’t already, I would strongly suggest that you read/listen the “Rich Dad, Poor Dad”. It speaks of the “Rat Race”, where once you increase your income by a fraction, you almost immediately and subconsciously adjust your needs to absorb that increase.

I think this is one of the books that everyone over the age of 15-17 should read as it gives a crash-course on the fine art of making money.

This book, together with the minimalists’ work influenced me to change my work style and other habits and now I feel more focused, clutter free, and with significantly more €$£¥ in my pocket.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#15

Post by annabellish » Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 12:29 PM UTC

jdhn wrote: post #5

"That money won’t disappear, of course—it will go into the pockets of workers, and then find its way back into the coffers of corporate America via higher sales." Do people really go out and spend money immediately if they get raises? Personally, if I get a raise, I may treat myself to something nice, but then I immediately go back to my old spending habits so I have more money to save.

For most people? Yes, absolutely. Most people aren't paid enough to cover their needs + enough of their wants to keep them happy, never mind savings. We have a very different perspective to the average worker in tech, where we're usually paid well above our needs + many wants.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#16

Post by HenryBemis » Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 12:31 PM UTC

bungie4 wrote: post #10

Talyen42 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average person spends almost exactly as much as they make as income rises. It's a hedonic treadmill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill

Thanks HN, I didn't realize this phenomena was named. Learn something new everyday. I always just said, expenses rises to meet income, + 25%.

..and the “Rat race” I mentioned on a previous comment above is that exactly perpetual effort to cover that +25% as you very correctly stated of “more expensive lifestyle” that we impose to ourselves.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#17

Post by pmontra » Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 12:31 PM UTC

saw-lau wrote: post #7

When accessing from The UK: Unfortunately, our website is currently unavailable in most European countries. We are engaged on the issue and committed to looking at options that support our full range of digital offerings to the EU market. We continue to identify technical compliance solutions that will provide all readers with our award-winning journalism.

Click web at the top of this page, ask your browser to show the desktop version if on mobile, show the cached version of the page.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#18

Post by CapacitorSet » Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 12:32 PM UTC

saw-lau wrote: post #7

When accessing from The UK: Unfortunately, our website is currently unavailable in most European countries. We are engaged on the issue and committed to looking at options that support our full range of digital offerings to the EU market. We continue to identify technical compliance solutions that will provide all readers with our award-winning journalism.

That's a really weak commitment, considering that they had 2 years to comply with GDPR.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#19

Post by jdhn » Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 12:38 PM UTC

annabellish wrote: post #15

jdhn wrote: post #5

"That money won’t disappear, of course—it will go into the pockets of workers, and then find its way back into the coffers of corporate America via higher sales." Do people really go out and spend money immediately if they get raises? Personally, if I get a raise, I may treat myself to something nice, but then I immediately go back to my old spending habits so I have more money to save.

For most people? Yes, absolutely. Most people aren't paid enough to cover their needs + enough of their wants to keep them happy, never mind savings. We have a very different perspective to the average worker in tech, where we're usually paid well above our needs + many wants.

I guess my experience differs. Before I moved into the tech world I worked at a law firm for peanuts. When I got a $1/hr raise I went out, bought a bottle of whiskey to celebrate, and then didn't increase my spending at all. Any money I got from that raise went right to my savings account.

Re: Employers will do almost anything to find workers except pay them more

#20

Post by Zeebrommer » Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 12:38 PM UTC

sametmax wrote: post #11

And if you think it's bad, it's even worse in Europe. Taking the French example: I'm an freelancer, but I used to have a contract with an American company. They gave me 3x the salary most of my French colleagues would get, while keeping the exact same social advantages (they paid me through a French branch). However, to them, the salary was twice lower than what they would have paid for the same guy in the Valley. No…

Can you read this article? I'm in Europe and run into a message saying "Unfortunately, our website is currently unavailable in most European countries. We are engaged on the issue and committed to looking at options that support our full range of digital offerings to the EU market. We continue to identify technical compliance solutions that will provide all readers with our award-winning journalism." with the LA times since the GDPA.