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Put a Fork in Caddy; It's Done

neflabs.com

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Re: Put a Fork in Caddy; It's Done

#51

Post by neflabs »

deskamess wrote: post #31
rrdharan wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to imagine a productive forking discussion taking place on Caddy's forums directly. Certainly not in that announcement. At any rate having read this article I didn't see anything saying that "the whole project was garbage". The video (which Matt Holt removed) is also actually worth watching IMO, although I can see why he doesn't want it posted on the forum given its tone.

The video has a personality calling Matt an 'asshole'. That was unnecessary. Once that statement was made, I do not blame Matt for removing it. Name calling is not the way to go about addressing this important issue. It is indeed unfortunate that it has tainted what was otherwise a useful point of view.

Matt said in his statement above, "I haven't actually watched the video" so the truth is, he removed it simply because he asked the community for feedback and decided to censor any opinion which didn't agree with his goals.

Re: Put a Fork in Caddy; It's Done

#52

Post by neflabs »

cjcampbell wrote: post #44

It’s important to debate privacy, but it’s also important to understand that privacy is much bigger than tracking and telemetry. From my position, Neflabs compromises their own authority when they resort to bullying by mocking Matt for his faith.

We think his public statement, "Earning your trust is my most important interpersonal goal" is both relevant and good. We're not attacking his religion - we want Matt to stick to his publicly stated principles.

Re: Put a Fork in Caddy; It's Done

#53

Post by jonathanoliver »

neflabs wrote: post #49
jonathanoliver wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused. If telemetry is an option and you can opt out, why not just do that? Also, because everything is open source, you're welcome to inspect the source to verify that it's behaving as expected and not reporting telemetry. You mentioned that you're not a Go programmer and/or you don't have time to do this...okay, so pay someone else who is a Go programmer to do this for you. Or is any software that costs mone…

You're conflating two issues. If Matt wants money, we're happy to pay. That's a separate issue from telemetry. We don't want a) a sole developer making decisions which the community has rejected, and b) software which sends telemetry by default.

If Matt feels that having telemetry on by default is the form of compensation he would like for his time/investment, I don't see that as a problem.

I can see that different people would take exception to that which is why there's an off switch for telemetry.

If you're having a difficult time accepting that telemetry exists at all, then I'm almost certain Matt would be happy to create a non-telemetry version for paid subscribers.

Re: Put a Fork in Caddy; It's Done

#54

Post by neflabs »

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #47
neflabs wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We think his public statement, "Earning your trust is my most important interpersonal goal" is both relevant and good. We're not attacking his religion - we want Matt to stick to his publicly stated principles.

Then I would suggest changing the wording to just "profile". Whether you realize it or not, the Mormons are a less-than-revered religious minority in many parts of the US, and dropping that fact so early in the article comes across as poisoning the well against him. There's plenty of reason to be upset with Mr. Holt. His own reply elsewhere in this thread reads more like a PR response than a real reply. But keep the…

Fair point. Done.

Re: Put a Fork in Caddy; It's Done

#55

Post by detaro »

neflabs wrote: post #50
detaro wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking through the discussions linked, he's done more for a reasonable discussion of this than you have. And I say that as someone who's not a fan of many things around Caddy (and would very much prefer opt-out if I were in any danger of using stock Caddy). Next time, maybe spend more time on elaborating on the "very real privacy concerns" and less on personalities.

How is deleting comments from his own community "done more for a reasonable discussion of this than you have"? Your argument has no basis, you're simply shooting the messenger.

that's not the only thing he has done in that discussion, and I'm basing my comment on that.

Your video contains little argument that hasn't been already in the discussion, goes in no detail what specifically you object to, personally insults him, and being a video isn't a very good contribution in a text-forum anyways: in sum more then enough reasons for a moderator to remove it, and adding very little to the overall discussion.

Re: Put a Fork in Caddy; It's Done

#56

Post by slenk »

onewhonknocks wrote: post #46
neflabs wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matt, your response here is a very nice advertisement for Caddy, and a glimpse into your academic life, but you aren't addressing the very real privacy concerns of your users.

One can easily opt-out. What's the issue here?

I just went to the Caddy website and GitHUb - if I was a new user I don't know that telemetry is being collected nor how to turn it off.

Re: Put a Fork in Caddy; It's Done

#57

Post by detaro »

slenk wrote: post #56
onewhonknocks wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One can easily opt-out. What's the issue here?

I just went to the Caddy website and GitHUb - if I was a new user I don't know that telemetry is being collected nor how to turn it off.

Telemetry is being discussed, it hasn't been added yet. (And people have rightly pointed out in the discussion that it has to be well-documented to be acceptable)

Re: Put a Fork in Caddy; It's Done

#59

Post by slenk »

ezekg wrote: post #24

> This is no longer just a conversation on privacy; this is a hostage situation. Give me a break. I'm tired of this type of drama and FUD coming up through sensationalized posts like this. It's open source -- there's no hostage situation. I stopped reading at that whiney BS. Matt is looking to collect anonymized data so that he knows how his product is being used and how it can be improved -- which must be a tough si…

The only issue I have is that I don't see any mention about the telemtry collection or how to opt out on their homepage or github readme...unless these features aren't actually out yet and I misunderstood everything

Re: Put a Fork in Caddy; It's Done

#60

Post by pbreit »

stevekemp wrote: post #9

I can't reach the site to read the post, but it seems that Caddy has been plagued with controvosy/drama as they tried to monetise their project - as past discussion here shows: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15237923 It's a nice-looking project, and the integrated Let's Encrypt is great for non-sophisticated users, but the user-base must be suffering.

I’m surprised it survived the commercial rollout. AFAICT, the commercial rollout required $300/year per instance for any and all commercial usage. It made it sound like you weren’t even allowed to use the open source version for commercial use (is that even possible?).
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