Put a Fork in Caddy; It's Done • Hacker News Board

Re: Put a Fork in Caddy; It's Done

#41

Post by neflabs » Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 3:18 PM UTC

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #33

Linking to the Caddy dev's Mormon profile in the third sentence seems like a really sleazy low-blow.

We think his public statement, "Earning your trust is my most important interpersonal goal" is both relevant and good. We're not attacking his religion - we want Matt to stick to his publicly stated principles.

Re: Put a Fork in Caddy; It's Done

#42

Post by Gigablah » Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 3:20 PM UTC

This looks like a simple grab for attention by a company that touts "server hardening" and "device hardening" as part of their services, one of their projects being "c0llude", a "self-hosted, flat-file collaboration tool for small teams and activists". It's supposed to prevent tracking by "government lawyers and spies", so let's take a look at the source code:

https://github.com/neflabs/c0llude/blob/master/api/caldel.ph...

Wow, that's just embarrassing.

Re: Put a Fork in Caddy; It's Done

#43

Post by AWebOfBrown » Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 3:24 PM UTC

> How can any server administrator trust Matt Holt or his software again?

I sincerely hope much of the community views this kind of personal attack on an open source developer for what it is: disgusting.

If this kind of behavior is encouraged, imagine the message it sends to people building open source software. Not only does your open source work not directly reward you financially, but it will be used as ammunition to tarnish your reputation, all because someone doesn't like the direction you're taking your project.

Honestly, this is shameful.

Re: Put a Fork in Caddy; It's Done

#44

Post by cjcampbell » Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 3:27 PM UTC

It’s important to debate privacy, but it’s also important to understand that privacy is much bigger than tracking and telemetry. From my position, Neflabs compromises their own authority when they resort to bullying by mocking Matt for his faith.

Re: Put a Fork in Caddy; It's Done

#45

Post by jonathanoliver » Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 3:27 PM UTC

neflabs wrote: post #37

mholt wrote: post #26

Hey everyone -- Matt here. Not quite sure why this is news; we've been discussing telemetry for a long[1] time[2]. I haven't actually watched the video because I've been really busy finishing my last semester of graduate school and switching research labs to start my masters thesis this week. Several of us in the research community have agreed that telemetry can be a net good for the Web. Similar to how Firefox, the…

Matt, your response here is a very nice advertisement for Caddy, and a glimpse into your academic life, but you aren't addressing the very real privacy concerns of your users.

I'm confused. If telemetry is an option and you can opt out, why not just do that? Also, because everything is open source, you're welcome to inspect the source to verify that it's behaving as expected and not reporting telemetry. You mentioned that you're not a Go programmer and/or you don't have time to do this...okay, so pay someone else who is a Go programmer to do this for you. Or is any software that costs money too much?

Matt has a right, as the creator of that work, to ask for some form of compensation for the portion of his life invested into the project. It's a completely fair and reasonable request. If you're set on avoiding any form of compensation (financial or otherwise), then you don't have any rights to demand anything from him. Just go use nginx and be done with it.

Re: Put a Fork in Caddy; It's Done

#46

Post by onewhonknocks » Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 3:30 PM UTC

neflabs wrote: post #37

mholt wrote: post #26

Hey everyone -- Matt here. Not quite sure why this is news; we've been discussing telemetry for a long[1] time[2]. I haven't actually watched the video because I've been really busy finishing my last semester of graduate school and switching research labs to start my masters thesis this week. Several of us in the research community have agreed that telemetry can be a net good for the Web. Similar to how Firefox, the…

Matt, your response here is a very nice advertisement for Caddy, and a glimpse into your academic life, but you aren't addressing the very real privacy concerns of your users.

One can easily opt-out. What's the issue here?

Re: Put a Fork in Caddy; It's Done

#47

Post by AdmiralAsshat » Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 3:30 PM UTC

neflabs wrote: post #41

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #33

Linking to the Caddy dev's Mormon profile in the third sentence seems like a really sleazy low-blow.

We think his public statement, "Earning your trust is my most important interpersonal goal" is both relevant and good. We're not attacking his religion - we want Matt to stick to his publicly stated principles.

Then I would suggest changing the wording to just "profile". Whether you realize it or not, the Mormons are a less-than-revered religious minority in many parts of the US, and dropping that fact so early in the article comes across as poisoning the well against him.

There's plenty of reason to be upset with Mr. Holt. His own reply elsewhere in this thread reads more like a PR response than a real reply. But keep the contention on-topic and less like a personal hit.

Re: Put a Fork in Caddy; It's Done

#48

Post by detaro » Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 3:31 PM UTC

neflabs wrote: post #37

mholt wrote: post #26

Hey everyone -- Matt here. Not quite sure why this is news; we've been discussing telemetry for a long[1] time[2]. I haven't actually watched the video because I've been really busy finishing my last semester of graduate school and switching research labs to start my masters thesis this week. Several of us in the research community have agreed that telemetry can be a net good for the Web. Similar to how Firefox, the…

Matt, your response here is a very nice advertisement for Caddy, and a glimpse into your academic life, but you aren't addressing the very real privacy concerns of your users.

Looking through the discussions linked, he's done more for a reasonable discussion of this than you have. And I say that as someone who's not a fan of many things around Caddy (and would very much prefer opt-out if I were in any danger of using stock Caddy).

Next time, maybe spend more time on elaborating on the "very real privacy concerns" and less on personalities.

Re: Put a Fork in Caddy; It's Done

#49

Post by neflabs » Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 3:32 PM UTC

jonathanoliver wrote: post #45

neflabs wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matt, your response here is a very nice advertisement for Caddy, and a glimpse into your academic life, but you aren't addressing the very real privacy concerns of your users.

I'm confused. If telemetry is an option and you can opt out, why not just do that? Also, because everything is open source, you're welcome to inspect the source to verify that it's behaving as expected and not reporting telemetry. You mentioned that you're not a Go programmer and/or you don't have time to do this...okay, so pay someone else who is a Go programmer to do this for you. Or is any software that costs mone…

You're conflating two issues. If Matt wants money, we're happy to pay. That's a separate issue from telemetry.

We don't want a) a sole developer making decisions which the community has rejected, and b) software which sends telemetry by default.

Re: Put a Fork in Caddy; It's Done

#50

Post by neflabs » Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 3:33 PM UTC

detaro wrote: post #48

neflabs wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matt, your response here is a very nice advertisement for Caddy, and a glimpse into your academic life, but you aren't addressing the very real privacy concerns of your users.

Looking through the discussions linked, he's done more for a reasonable discussion of this than you have. And I say that as someone who's not a fan of many things around Caddy (and would very much prefer opt-out if I were in any danger of using stock Caddy). Next time, maybe spend more time on elaborating on the "very real privacy concerns" and less on personalities.

How is deleting comments from his own community "done more for a reasonable discussion of this than you have"? Your argument has no basis, you're simply shooting the messenger.