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Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

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Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#51

Post by colordrops »

gregknicholson wrote: post #22
exelius wrote: post #16

As someone on the spectrum, I don’t necessarily know if this is something I would want. My ASD is a big part of my personality; if these social “difficulties” (which really just mean I click with a different type of person) were “solved” I don’t know I would be the same person. Maybe this can offer some hope for others with more profound issues, but if you’ve found a way to function in society I’m not sure this will…

This was my first reaction too. From the perspective of the person who would be taking this treatment, this sounds less like “alleviating symptoms” and more like adding an extra sense or altering their perception. The Deaf community have been handling a similar issue for a while — see for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cochlear_implant#Criticism_and...

Whether a condition is labeled a disease is less important than whether it affects your ability to function and be happy, so definitely should be evaluated on a case by case basis.

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#52

Post by dsacco »

Varcht wrote: post #41
chki wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This touches on the fundamental debate whether autism is a disease or not. Your comment and especially comparing autism to not being able to read implies that but I personally think there might be parts of the autistic spectrum that do not fall under that definition.

I tend to lean toward a trait, and there really is no arguing that there are benefits, at least on the lower end of the spectrum. Modifying genes for "ideal" traits in humans seems like a bad idea to me...

> I tend to lean toward a trait, and there really is no arguing that there are benefits

What are the benefits?

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#53

Post by titanix2 »

dsacco wrote: post #52
Varcht wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend to lean toward a trait, and there really is no arguing that there are benefits, at least on the lower end of the spectrum. Modifying genes for "ideal" traits in humans seems like a bad idea to me...

> I tend to lean toward a trait, and there really is no arguing that there are benefits What are the benefits?

From what I read and maybe my own on-the-spectrum-traits the ability to focus intensely and for months on something. It really helps for studies.

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#54

Post by klipt »

Waterluvian wrote: post #23
exelius wrote: post #16

As someone on the spectrum, I don’t necessarily know if this is something I would want. My ASD is a big part of my personality; if these social “difficulties” (which really just mean I click with a different type of person) were “solved” I don’t know I would be the same person. Maybe this can offer some hope for others with more profound issues, but if you’ve found a way to function in society I’m not sure this will…

I have ADHD. Drugs like ritalin never "fixed" me. They basically allowed me an exchange: give up the charisma, personality, sociability, and appetite for 8 hours of being able to focus on something. I won't write an essay here but trust me that the two versions of me were day and night and both had significant benefits and challenges. I really struggled growing up. By the time I got to college I learned to use the dr…

> give up the charisma, personality, sociability, and appetite for 8 hours of being able to focus on something

Perhaps this autism treating drug is like an anti-Ritalin: give up the intense focus, and in exchange get charisma and sociability.

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#55

Post by txsh »

exelius wrote: post #16

As someone on the spectrum, I don’t necessarily know if this is something I would want. My ASD is a big part of my personality; if these social “difficulties” (which really just mean I click with a different type of person) were “solved” I don’t know I would be the same person. Maybe this can offer some hope for others with more profound issues, but if you’ve found a way to function in society I’m not sure this will…

It's something everybody else would want because its unreasonably difficult to deal with autistic people. I have sympathy for those who can't help it but that sympathy evaporates the second there's a cure.

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#56

Post by klipt »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #39
amelius wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sidenote: from a charity/financial perspective it is advantageous to group different conditions under one name. Look at cancer research, which receives the most funding of all diseases, but which can really be divided into many (200+) different fundamental types.

Is each cancer considered unique, though? Or would the cure for, for instance, breast cancer, also deal with other forms as well? After all, we already have fairly standardized procedures for most types of cancer. So if it is possible to cure several with the same cure, then I'd disagree with saying there's over 200 different "fundamental" types of cancer.

Cancers have common traits: spreading uncontrollably, metastasizing - these are what make cells cancerous.

But cells from different specialized tissues tend to become cancerous in different ways, by expressing different genes. So a treatment that targets a particular gene expression may work for one type but not others.

And a cancer that returns after treatment will have yet a different gene expression (usually resistant to that particular treatment).

Like the Borg, cancer adapts. That's why it's called the Emperor of all maladies: http://www.pbs.org/show/story-cancer-emperor-all-maladies/

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#57

Post by shagie »

exelius wrote: post #16

As someone on the spectrum, I don’t necessarily know if this is something I would want. My ASD is a big part of my personality; if these social “difficulties” (which really just mean I click with a different type of person) were “solved” I don’t know I would be the same person. Maybe this can offer some hope for others with more profound issues, but if you’ve found a way to function in society I’m not sure this will…

This is the topic of the book "Speed of Dark" by Elizabeth Moon - the self identity of someone who has high-functioning autistism as an adult and the possibility of having it cured.

This also touches on the community that forms for people with a particular disorder or disability (e.g. the deaf community, the blind community being two that come to mind the most easily with their own culture).

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#58

Post by scardine »

titanix2 wrote: post #53
dsacco wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I tend to lean toward a trait, and there really is no arguing that there are benefits What are the benefits?

From what I read and maybe my own on-the-spectrum-traits the ability to focus intensely and for months on something. It really helps for studies.

This is a myth. Authism is a spectrum disorder and you don't meet the more disfunctional cases very often. A few percent are also savants but not everyone in the spectrum has some superpower. The severe cases are very crippling and place a heavy burden in the family (specially because the life expectancy is normal so you will not be always available to care for your autistic son).

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#59

Post by scardine »

lev99 wrote: post #19
exelius wrote: post #16

As someone on the spectrum, I don’t necessarily know if this is something I would want. My ASD is a big part of my personality; if these social “difficulties” (which really just mean I click with a different type of person) were “solved” I don’t know I would be the same person. Maybe this can offer some hope for others with more profound issues, but if you’ve found a way to function in society I’m not sure this will…

Would you recommend children on the spectrum to be placed on drug if it would "solve" "difficulties"? I find this to be a complex moral question.

It is complex indeed, specially for borderline cases. Looks like my son is landing on the functional side of the spectrum but it is always a coin toss. He will be 5 in May and is doing great attending a regular school although he is fortunate enough to have a dedicated tutor with him in class.

If he was unable to speak I consider medication.

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#60

Post by scardine »

jacob019 wrote: post #48
cbhl wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the concerns about treatments for ASD and ADHD is that parents could be incentivized to do what is convenient for them, rather than what is best for the child.

Parents don't prescribe drugs, doctors do. No system is perfect but I trust doctors and parents to do a better job than politicians and social workers when it comes to deciding what's best for each unique child.

We are talking about lifetime medication here so there is a huge incentive for drug companies to campaign for chemical solutions. Not so long doctors prescribed lobotomies for trouble-makers. Parent is correct here.
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