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Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

sciencedaily.com

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Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#31

Post by chki »

whatshisface wrote: post #21
exelius wrote: post #16

As someone on the spectrum, I don’t necessarily know if this is something I would want. My ASD is a big part of my personality; if these social “difficulties” (which really just mean I click with a different type of person) were “solved” I don’t know I would be the same person. Maybe this can offer some hope for others with more profound issues, but if you’ve found a way to function in society I’m not sure this will…

I think the experience of being a person goes a lot deeper than having any specific personality, if it didn't we wouldn't be sorting traits into good and bad. If not having learned to read has kept someone away from the influences of literature, we could say that it has impacted their personality, but would that be an excuse to never teach them? Some behaviors associated with autism are really results of having less…

This touches on the fundamental debate whether autism is a disease or not. Your comment and especially comparing autism to not being able to read implies that but I personally think there might be parts of the autistic spectrum that do not fall under that definition.

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#32

Post by narrator »

alanh wrote: post #10
glibgil wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what effect (if any) it would have super charisma

Eh, maybe… but I am reminded of the observation that if a single tweak could significantly enhance mental abilities, evolution would have probably given it to us already. I think Eliezer Yudkowsky has a longish piece to this effect (please forgive me if I am mis-remembering).

That would imply that we've stopped evolving.

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#33

Post by paulddraper »

exelius wrote: post #16

As someone on the spectrum, I don’t necessarily know if this is something I would want. My ASD is a big part of my personality; if these social “difficulties” (which really just mean I click with a different type of person) were “solved” I don’t know I would be the same person. Maybe this can offer some hope for others with more profound issues, but if you’ve found a way to function in society I’m not sure this will…

> outside a “let me try and see what it feels like” scenario.

And I imagine that's what anyone older than a young child would do.

If coffee makes it so you can't sleep, don't drink coffee.

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#34

Post by DanBC »

whatshisface wrote: post #21
exelius wrote: post #16

As someone on the spectrum, I don’t necessarily know if this is something I would want. My ASD is a big part of my personality; if these social “difficulties” (which really just mean I click with a different type of person) were “solved” I don’t know I would be the same person. Maybe this can offer some hope for others with more profound issues, but if you’ve found a way to function in society I’m not sure this will…

I think the experience of being a person goes a lot deeper than having any specific personality, if it didn't we wouldn't be sorting traits into good and bad. If not having learned to read has kept someone away from the influences of literature, we could say that it has impacted their personality, but would that be an excuse to never teach them? Some behaviors associated with autism are really results of having less…

> Some behaviors associated with autism are really results of having less social influence acting on one's self (due to both slower learning and isolation)

This isn't supported by the research, which shows that autistic people struggle with social communication even if you give them intense courses about how to be better at social communication.

What you're suggesting is dangerously close to the "refrigerator mother" hypothesis, and that caused harm to many people.

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#35

Post by taurath »

rocqua wrote: post #13
taurath wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So little research is done on Autism from the perspective of adults living on the spectrum - almost all the funding and research seems to go towards childhood and to give parents coping mechanisms. IMO we need clear clinical definitions of different parts of the spectrum so we can have more intelligent conversations about it - is a study cohort involving 10 year olds ones who cannot clothe themselves or participate i…

Does it really make sense to partition the spectrum? It feels more reasonable to replace these exact partitions with something like 'prototypes'. The partitions would make sense if each partition corresponded to a specific physical 'defect'. Such that it actually makes sense to treat everyone in that partition the same. This is why we distinguish diabetes Type 1 from diabetes type 2. This is why we distinguish betwee…

> Quite dangerously, it suggests that all people in that partition have 'the same problem'

At the moment there is little way to tell or reference whether a studied cohort happens to be on one end of the spectrum or the other, or mixed between. I'm mostly advocating on behalf of adults and parents of those on the higher functioning end of the spectrum (because I'm a part of that group), who not only have to deal with a general lack of good age-specific information, but ALSO a huge amount of false-positive data. Most support groups for example are for caretakers of those on the lower end of the spectrum. As a result, those who could use data on their side of the spectrum to help themselves, or advocate for their own care almost always have to deal with wrong or misleading information.

Imagine you had an incurable illness that was moderately debilitating to you, but in harsher cases would paralyze the victims. If you or your doctor wanted to look up how to treat your symptoms, you would only get tips on how to operate paraplegic bathrooms and support groups for caretakers. You try going to a support group with victims of the illness, but find them to be in a vastly more difficult position than you. Yet you still suffer. Its a feeling of loneliness that is really hard to express.

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#36

Post by CobrastanJorji »

chki wrote: post #31
whatshisface wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the experience of being a person goes a lot deeper than having any specific personality, if it didn't we wouldn't be sorting traits into good and bad. If not having learned to read has kept someone away from the influences of literature, we could say that it has impacted their personality, but would that be an excuse to never teach them? Some behaviors associated with autism are really results of having less…

This touches on the fundamental debate whether autism is a disease or not. Your comment and especially comparing autism to not being able to read implies that but I personally think there might be parts of the autistic spectrum that do not fall under that definition.

Autism is especially difficult to categorize as a disease or even a negative, but even when you can relatively easily label something as a technical disability, like deafness, there are perfectly valid reasons why the folks affected would be pretty strongly opposed to a cure. Any issue pertaining to identity is always going to be a very sensitive one.

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#37

Post by EamonnMR »

hosh wrote: post #18

Whoa. Though I often question if society should treat social deficits of autism even if such a treatment is effective without side-effects. Another solution would be for society to be generally more neuro-inclusive. I can't help but wonder if there are synergistic benefits from being able to have different ways of experiencing the world. (I don't have ASD; my step-daughter is on the spectrum).

Society is very difficult to change, and activist groups aren't pushing in that direction as a whole (Autism Self Advocacy Network is far smaller than Autism Speaks.) Drugs are easy to make acceptable as long as the medical establishment is ok with it.

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#38

Post by cbhl »

jacob019 wrote: post #25
lev99 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you recommend children on the spectrum to be placed on drug if it would "solve" "difficulties"? I find this to be a complex moral question.

That should be between the parents and doctors.

One of the concerns about treatments for ASD and ADHD is that parents could be incentivized to do what is convenient for them, rather than what is best for the child.

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#39

Post by mynameisvlad »

amelius wrote: post #15
rocqua wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it really make sense to partition the spectrum? It feels more reasonable to replace these exact partitions with something like 'prototypes'. The partitions would make sense if each partition corresponded to a specific physical 'defect'. Such that it actually makes sense to treat everyone in that partition the same. This is why we distinguish diabetes Type 1 from diabetes type 2. This is why we distinguish betwee…

Sidenote: from a charity/financial perspective it is advantageous to group different conditions under one name. Look at cancer research, which receives the most funding of all diseases, but which can really be divided into many (200+) different fundamental types.

Is each cancer considered unique, though? Or would the cure for, for instance, breast cancer, also deal with other forms as well? After all, we already have fairly standardized procedures for most types of cancer.

So if it is possible to cure several with the same cure, then I'd disagree with saying there's over 200 different "fundamental" types of cancer.

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#40

Post by knz »

Waterluvian wrote: post #23
exelius wrote: post #16

As someone on the spectrum, I don’t necessarily know if this is something I would want. My ASD is a big part of my personality; if these social “difficulties” (which really just mean I click with a different type of person) were “solved” I don’t know I would be the same person. Maybe this can offer some hope for others with more profound issues, but if you’ve found a way to function in society I’m not sure this will…

I have ADHD. Drugs like ritalin never "fixed" me. They basically allowed me an exchange: give up the charisma, personality, sociability, and appetite for 8 hours of being able to focus on something. I won't write an essay here but trust me that the two versions of me were day and night and both had significant benefits and challenges. I really struggled growing up. By the time I got to college I learned to use the dr…

> Not that ADHD and ASD can be compared

My understanding is that ASD and ADHD are often found together. I don't have enough familiarity with either to know where one begins and the other starts.

Thanks for sharing your perspective, as the parent of a child just diagnosed with both conditions it's useful!

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