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Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

sciencedaily.com

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Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#21

Post by whatshisface »

exelius wrote: post #16

As someone on the spectrum, I don’t necessarily know if this is something I would want. My ASD is a big part of my personality; if these social “difficulties” (which really just mean I click with a different type of person) were “solved” I don’t know I would be the same person. Maybe this can offer some hope for others with more profound issues, but if you’ve found a way to function in society I’m not sure this will…

I think the experience of being a person goes a lot deeper than having any specific personality, if it didn't we wouldn't be sorting traits into good and bad. If not having learned to read has kept someone away from the influences of literature, we could say that it has impacted their personality, but would that be an excuse to never teach them?

Some behaviors associated with autism are really results of having less social influence acting on one's self (due to both slower learning and isolation). Would we consider them a fundamental part of the person, or just evidence of areas that the person still can grow in?

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#22

Post by gregknicholson »

exelius wrote: post #16

As someone on the spectrum, I don’t necessarily know if this is something I would want. My ASD is a big part of my personality; if these social “difficulties” (which really just mean I click with a different type of person) were “solved” I don’t know I would be the same person. Maybe this can offer some hope for others with more profound issues, but if you’ve found a way to function in society I’m not sure this will…

This was my first reaction too. From the perspective of the person who would be taking this treatment, this sounds less like “alleviating symptoms” and more like adding an extra sense or altering their perception.

The Deaf community have been handling a similar issue for a while — see for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cochlear_implant#Criticism_and...

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#23

Post by Waterluvian »

exelius wrote: post #16

As someone on the spectrum, I don’t necessarily know if this is something I would want. My ASD is a big part of my personality; if these social “difficulties” (which really just mean I click with a different type of person) were “solved” I don’t know I would be the same person. Maybe this can offer some hope for others with more profound issues, but if you’ve found a way to function in society I’m not sure this will…

I have ADHD. Drugs like ritalin never "fixed" me. They basically allowed me an exchange: give up the charisma, personality, sociability, and appetite for 8 hours of being able to focus on something. I won't write an essay here but trust me that the two versions of me were day and night and both had significant benefits and challenges. I really struggled growing up.

By the time I got to college I learned to use the drugs as a switch I could flip when I needed the focused version of me.

Not that ADHD and ASD can be compared, but I wonder if maybe ASD treatments could offer that option. Ie. Not to "fix" you but to give you a tool to be wielded under your own control.

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#24

Post by jacob019 »

exelius wrote: post #16

As someone on the spectrum, I don’t necessarily know if this is something I would want. My ASD is a big part of my personality; if these social “difficulties” (which really just mean I click with a different type of person) were “solved” I don’t know I would be the same person. Maybe this can offer some hope for others with more profound issues, but if you’ve found a way to function in society I’m not sure this will…

Our personalities can change dramatically as we age and yet we retain our sense of individuality. People struggle to be stonger and if medicine can help then it should. If it's not right for everyone, that's okay.

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#25

Post by jacob019 »

lev99 wrote: post #19
exelius wrote: post #16

As someone on the spectrum, I don’t necessarily know if this is something I would want. My ASD is a big part of my personality; if these social “difficulties” (which really just mean I click with a different type of person) were “solved” I don’t know I would be the same person. Maybe this can offer some hope for others with more profound issues, but if you’ve found a way to function in society I’m not sure this will…

Would you recommend children on the spectrum to be placed on drug if it would "solve" "difficulties"? I find this to be a complex moral question.

That should be between the parents and doctors.

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#26

Post by truculation »

alanh wrote: post #10
glibgil wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what effect (if any) it would have super charisma

Eh, maybe… but I am reminded of the observation that if a single tweak could significantly enhance mental abilities, evolution would have probably given it to us already. I think Eliezer Yudkowsky has a longish piece to this effect (please forgive me if I am mis-remembering).

Not in cases where the deficits caused by the tweak are compensated for by modern culture. For example, it could be that natural selection made learning hard for adult humans in order to preserve scant knowledge in prehistorical times. But now that we have written culture this may no longer be necessary or desirable.

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#27

Post by derefr »

alanh wrote: post #10
glibgil wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what effect (if any) it would have super charisma

Eh, maybe… but I am reminded of the observation that if a single tweak could significantly enhance mental abilities, evolution would have probably given it to us already. I think Eliezer Yudkowsky has a longish piece to this effect (please forgive me if I am mis-remembering).

I wouldn't describe charisma as a "mental ability." Rather, IMHO, there's a tradeoff between the type of thinking that helps you "win" status and power in a socially-fraught scenario (i.e. playing the Game of Thrones); vs. the type of thinking that helps you come off as being a person your audience would like to take out for a beer.

Or, to go even further, people will like you more (find you more "charismatic") to the exact degree that their predictive model of your current mental processes—built up by observing you—doesn't involve you putting in that extra work to seek status and power. You get more charismatic by shutting mental processes off! (And then signalling that you've done so, by e.g. saying things that cost you status that you wouldn't say if you cared about status. Like people do when slightly drunk!)

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#29

Post by [deleted] »

Waterluvian wrote: post #23
exelius wrote: post #16

As someone on the spectrum, I don’t necessarily know if this is something I would want. My ASD is a big part of my personality; if these social “difficulties” (which really just mean I click with a different type of person) were “solved” I don’t know I would be the same person. Maybe this can offer some hope for others with more profound issues, but if you’ve found a way to function in society I’m not sure this will…

I have ADHD. Drugs like ritalin never "fixed" me. They basically allowed me an exchange: give up the charisma, personality, sociability, and appetite for 8 hours of being able to focus on something. I won't write an essay here but trust me that the two versions of me were day and night and both had significant benefits and challenges. I really struggled growing up. By the time I got to college I learned to use the dr…

[deleted]

Re: Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

#30

Post by EamonnMR »

rocqua wrote: post #13
taurath wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So little research is done on Autism from the perspective of adults living on the spectrum - almost all the funding and research seems to go towards childhood and to give parents coping mechanisms. IMO we need clear clinical definitions of different parts of the spectrum so we can have more intelligent conversations about it - is a study cohort involving 10 year olds ones who cannot clothe themselves or participate i…

Does it really make sense to partition the spectrum? It feels more reasonable to replace these exact partitions with something like 'prototypes'. The partitions would make sense if each partition corresponded to a specific physical 'defect'. Such that it actually makes sense to treat everyone in that partition the same. This is why we distinguish diabetes Type 1 from diabetes type 2. This is why we distinguish betwee…

It is definitely a good idea to look at it independently because there might well be, say, some genes that cause mild case and, in combination with another gene that causes a debilitating one. Its important to not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
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