Unselfish? In the article the term unselfish was used instead of altruistic. Unselfish views and concerns of course don't actually help anyone. Being concerned for something and not doing anything about it is a going to be depressive. People regularly report that the best way to feel good (and connected) is to go out and help other people, and conversely not worry too much about the things you cannot realisically effect. I would suggested the seemingly immutable course of the modern world contributes to a feeling of helplessness and increased rates of depression.
Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression
51–60 of 137 posts
Re: Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure, I'd have it much better than all the people who had to die. But I already have it much better than all the people who are killed or crippled by preventable illnesses because they were unlucky enough to be born into poverty. But that doesn't really factor into my moral reasoning. My living forever wouldn't necessarily make things worse for people who don't get to do that. So, as a consequentialist, I don't think…
That's not my point. My point is why do you want to live forever? Is anyone on this forum so important that they deserve to live for 10,000 years, when the entirety of human civilization which made that possible is now dead? Nobody is that important or has that much to offer to the world. It's purely an ego driven thing based on us as individuals. I'm not assigning moral right and wrong to it, I'm just saying it's ir…
Is there a threshold of years when the wish to live for X years change from normal to irrationally ego driven? Or are you asserting that any wish to live is irrationally ego driven? Is there a quanlitative or kind difference, under your view, for someone wishing to live 50, 500 or 5000 years?
Or to put it in plain words and as I can't find a way to make it less confusing: why isn't your position equivalent to advocating for everyone to kill themselves (or at the least, not caring at all whether they live or die)
Re: Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression
#53Canary in the coal mine. Depression may be a social illness because people with heighten empathy feel something is wrong with the system around them resulting in depression. That seems a stronger argument then some macro economic argument about ill defined inequality.
Depression has higher incidences in individualistic and affluent western societies. One probably analysis, agreeing with what you said, is that the "something wrong" is the lack of social cohesion that prosperity and modernity have brought. The broader direction of our culture for >100 years has lead to the breakdown of institutions that maintain social cohesion in favor of personal autonomy and expression (which tho…
Because the non-Western countries are poorer, with worse issues to deal with. How can you afford seeing a psychiatrist who gives you the diagnosis depression when you can barely pay for the roof above your head? See e.g. the karoshi (yes I'm aware that is Japanese) at Foxconn.
Re: Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression
#54Canary in the coal mine. Depression may be a social illness because people with heighten empathy feel something is wrong with the system around them resulting in depression. That seems a stronger argument then some macro economic argument about ill defined inequality.
Someone already replied to you with some of the same point - but I think the problem is exceedingly obvious - we lack community in the US. I put a large part of the blame on suburban development. What did we expect when we took social animals and then sequestered them into little boxes far away from where humans congregate - requiring you to fit into another little box to drive to the next box for your planned and hi…
Warning this is coming from someone highly involved in Oklahoma politics.
Oklahoma towns and cities tends to be more community centered. This may be do to a lack of money in a community or physical isolation from the rest of the country. But it is still there.
There are the same problems that other cities have, but we do provide good housing for most of our citizens. Tulsa, in particular through the work of the Mental Health Association of Oklahoma has ended chronic homeless within its borders. We are working on the same in Oklahoma City. We believe hard work matters and people can be leave poverty. The community providing the support systems for that to happen. Now, no one is going to give it to you. We just allow an affordable education path for betterment. And have a strong network of nonprofits and family foundations supporting programs of many kinds.
That is just in the area I am fortunate to work in. Oklahoma is not perfect one just has to look at where we stand national on things like teen pregnancy, women incarnation, drug abuse etc. It is just there are some places where community still matters and Oklahoma is one of those places.
Re: Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression
#55I can't tell where they flipped the directionality around for the headline, because the first line of the article is "People with depression are more likely to feel bad in response to perceived inequality" and the rest of the article sticks to that finding. It seems intuitive that people with depression are more likely to feel bad in response to X, for all X.
Yeah that's why Vice isn't a news/research source
Re: Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's not my point. My point is why do you want to live forever? Is anyone on this forum so important that they deserve to live for 10,000 years, when the entirety of human civilization which made that possible is now dead? Nobody is that important or has that much to offer to the world. It's purely an ego driven thing based on us as individuals. I'm not assigning moral right and wrong to it, I'm just saying it's ir…
Is there a threshold of years when the wish to live for X years change from normal to irrationally ego driven? Or are you asserting that any wish to live is irrationally ego driven? Is there a quanlitative or kind difference, under your view, for someone wishing to live 50, 500 or 5000 years? Or to put it in plain words and as I can't find a way to make it less confusing: why isn't your position equivalent to advocat…
Humans have natural lifespans. We've had very few people live to be older than 120. There's no reason to not naturally extend your life if you can, but I'm not sure we'll find that experience all that enjoyable as individuals (or it will require a disconnect to do so) and it isn't obvious there is any benefit to society from it (imagine Howard Hughes still directing his empire from his hotel penthouse today).
It's a natural ego driven thing to want to survive, but it is still driven by ego.
Re: Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is there a threshold of years when the wish to live for X years change from normal to irrationally ego driven? Or are you asserting that any wish to live is irrationally ego driven? Is there a quanlitative or kind difference, under your view, for someone wishing to live 50, 500 or 5000 years? Or to put it in plain words and as I can't find a way to make it less confusing: why isn't your position equivalent to advocat…
Humans have natural lifespans. We've had very few people live to be older than 120. There's no reason to not naturally extend your life if you can, but I'm not sure we'll find that experience all that enjoyable as individuals (or it will require a disconnect to do so) and it isn't obvious there is any benefit to society from it (imagine Howard Hughes still directing his empire from his hotel penthouse today). It's a…
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Re: Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is there a threshold of years when the wish to live for X years change from normal to irrationally ego driven? Or are you asserting that any wish to live is irrationally ego driven? Is there a quanlitative or kind difference, under your view, for someone wishing to live 50, 500 or 5000 years? Or to put it in plain words and as I can't find a way to make it less confusing: why isn't your position equivalent to advocat…
Humans have natural lifespans. We've had very few people live to be older than 120. There's no reason to not naturally extend your life if you can, but I'm not sure we'll find that experience all that enjoyable as individuals (or it will require a disconnect to do so) and it isn't obvious there is any benefit to society from it (imagine Howard Hughes still directing his empire from his hotel penthouse today). It's a…
Natural lifespan is a bit of a misnomer to describe our current lifespan though, seeing all the thing modern medicine does. I didn't realize how much biopsy would creep me out until I have it done, not to mention all kind of surgeries we do nowadays.
Re: Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
Actually, yes, this distinction of selfish versus unselfish is sooo pre-high school. It doesn't make terribly much sense to imagine that people can be divided into two groups, "selfish" and "unselfish".
> Actually, yes, this distinction of selfish versus unselfish is sooo pre-high school. If your reasoning here is, that every person just does what feels good for them and therefore everyone is just "selfish", then that certainly isn't the whole picture why people do what they do. There're certainly people doing things because they feel right, but it might not be a pleasure for them doing it. Reducing everything to ju…
What you have described is three quarters, let me fill this for you:
Person wishing to do the right thing and doing it ("unselfish")
Person doing the right thing against their wishes ("righteous")
Person wishing to do the right thing but not doing it (akrasia, you missed this one)
Person not doing the right thing and not wishing so ("selfish")
It's all about image of oneself and the experience of being burned by your actions, and every person out there shows plenty of behavior from all four quarters. So dividing people doesn't makes sense. Now, dividing actions does.
Re: Unselfish People Are More Likely to Wind Up with Depression
#60I feel great today.