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The long-term cost of sexual harassment

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Re: The long-term cost of sexual harassment

#51

Post by InclinedPlane »

tptacek wrote: post #15
QAPereo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is "PTSD-like" if not PTSD? Flashbacks? Panic attacks? Vivid and repeated dreams? Depression? Loss of function? At what point is it not so much "like" PTSD, which is not infrequently ruinous or even fatal to the sufferer, and more like all of the other forms of misery or trauma that don't have a diagnosis? I object in the same way to people who feel sad claiming that they're "Depressed" and that's not harmless e…

Unless you're well-versed with the concept of PTSD, either through research you've done, or because you suffer from it yourself, or because you have a close friend who does, you should be careful talking about it dismissively like this. The popular conception of PTSD is a caricature. In reality, we've only recently begun seriously diagnosing and investigating it, and getting a sense of its prevalence. In particular,…

Indeed, a lot more people have ptsd than is generally guessed because there is a great variety of life-altering trauma than people imagine. The caricature of ptsd is that it's something that veterans and rape victims have. It's too serious for anyone else to even think about having. It takes over your life and makes you into a crazy person, or nearly so.

The reality is that these are just the most extreme cases of ptsd. Many people who have suffered through comparatively more minor traumas nevertheless exhibit ptsd symptoms that can affect their quality of life in a daily basis. For example, emotional trauma in childhood can easily lead to the core ptsd symptoms such as irritability, isolation, hypervigilance, anxiety, flashbacks, etc. But because these are due to events considered less serious than combat or violent physical assault they can often go untreated and ignored.

Re: The long-term cost of sexual harassment

#52

Post by fwn »

It's a fair point on the long-term cost of sexual harassment combined with an uncivilized, one-sided public accusation. Do I miss something here?

Which part of the argument could not have been made without ruining a reputation through TC reach? How far are those accusations confirmed?

I've no stake in any of those people and I am not particularly opinionated about the current cultural matters surrounding harassment, but this is not a very civil approach and I am not sure it does a favor for the cause of greater awareness on the issue.

Re: The long-term cost of sexual harassment

#53

Post by owebmaster »

swiley wrote: post #34
Mz wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Typical response from a man is that I'm a great catch; she just doesn't know that she wants me. Once she's had sex with me she'll marry me. It's worse than that. For various reasons, some men are actively more interested if you reject them. It is a little bit like the principle that running from a bear will incite its chase instinct.

I don't know if it's the same for everyone else but growing up I was told you're supposed to chase girls and that if you don't actively pursue them you'll end up alone. I think that's where this kind of thing comes from.

This. The western culture puts women in a pedestal and men trying to climb it. It is a society problem, not men's fault.

Re: The long-term cost of sexual harassment

#54

Post by skocznymroczny »

swiley wrote: post #34
Mz wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Typical response from a man is that I'm a great catch; she just doesn't know that she wants me. Once she's had sex with me she'll marry me. It's worse than that. For various reasons, some men are actively more interested if you reject them. It is a little bit like the principle that running from a bear will incite its chase instinct.

I don't know if it's the same for everyone else but growing up I was told you're supposed to chase girls and that if you don't actively pursue them you'll end up alone. I think that's where this kind of thing comes from.

Also, as a man, you are respected to break the girl's apparent resistance. If you are in early stages of relationship and want to wait for the girl to be comfortable to kiss you, you'll never get here. Asking a girl if you can kiss her will be awkward too and will probably be a no. Leaning in and kissing her will do the trick.

Obviously if she says no and leans away, you stop and don't try it.

Re: The long-term cost of sexual harassment

#55

Post by Ilikesoup »

damm wrote: post #24
gerdesj wrote: post #16

"He put his arm around my shoulders and whispered “Can’t you pretend you’re single?” in my ear. I shrugged him off. " At that point an approach was made and met with a clear response. That was when things should have stopped. That is how potential relationship escalation should work: an offer is made in some way and based on the response the proposer gets an idea on how to proceed (in this case - bugger off). It is a…

It's one of the biggest problems we have. Typical response from a man is that I'm a great catch; she just doesn't know that she wants me. Once she's had sex with me she'll marry me. This is actually someone threatening rape (imo). Unfortunately it's something our President has said. We need to stop this behavior where people think they are entitled to someone else. We also need to have our Law enforcement act more ap…

>Once she's had sex with me she'll marry me.

From my experience this is the last thing men are thinking in these situations.

Re: The long-term cost of sexual harassment

#56

Post by dang »

jdp23 wrote: post #12
QAPereo wrote: post #2

On one hand that sounds like pretty typically shitty behavior from someone who never imagines that there might be lasting consequences for anyone as a result. On the other hand that's a pretty low bar for a year of PTSD.

'dang, this has been the top comment on the post for the last 20 minutes. You and others at YC who want to make the enviroment on HN less hostile to women (and people with PTSD and other invisible disabilities, and to people of all varieties who have been sexually harassed) need to understand the impact things like this have. [edited to clarify that this doesn't just make it a hostile environment to women]

That comment was flagged by the time we saw it. 20 minutes is not nearly long enough for the community process to complete, and instantaneous moderation is impossible. Nor would it be a good thing if it were possible.

Re: The long-term cost of sexual harassment

#57

Post by swiley »

skocznymroczny wrote: post #54
swiley wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if it's the same for everyone else but growing up I was told you're supposed to chase girls and that if you don't actively pursue them you'll end up alone. I think that's where this kind of thing comes from.

Also, as a man, you are respected to break the girl's apparent resistance. If you are in early stages of relationship and want to wait for the girl to be comfortable to kiss you, you'll never get here. Asking a girl if you can kiss her will be awkward too and will probably be a no. Leaning in and kissing her will do the trick. Obviously if she says no and leans away, you stop and don't try it.

That's actually not my experience, they always ask or at least give some fairly obvious sign that they want to, if they don't ask I always ask first. I've never just leaned in and kissed them and everyone that I've talked to say they hate that.

But I still hear LOTS of people say this and it's exactly what I'm talking about. Everyone keeps saying men need to be aggressive and I really do think that's what causes a lot of the sexual harassment.

Re: The long-term cost of sexual harassment

#58

Post by bookmarkacc »

fwn wrote: post #52

It's a fair point on the long-term cost of sexual harassment combined with an uncivilized, one-sided public accusation. Do I miss something here? Which part of the argument could not have been made without ruining a reputation through TC reach? How far are those accusations confirmed? I've no stake in any of those people and I am not particularly opinionated about the current cultural matters surrounding harassment,…

Sexual harassment is not a very civil approach either.

She states that she was inspired to share her experience (with photographic evidence) base on accounts of other women coming forward in a similiar manner.

Re: The long-term cost of sexual harassment

#59

Post by david38 »

amatecha wrote: post #18

Knowing how extremely adversely even minor harassment can affect someone in the workplace, I can't fathom how ANY company doesn't have an absolute-zero-tolerance policy for harassment, especially of a sexual nature. There's literally zero reasonable excuse for having to tolerate this kind of crap in a work situation, including "outside-of-work" events.

Because 1. It cost money to replace people 2. If the CEO doesn't see it as a problem, he's not going to put resources on it. 3. Zero-tolerance policies are usually bad in every context. You were too flirty with a girl at work and put your arm around her? Bam, you're fired. 4. To understand a situation, you have to see it from both sides.

Re: The long-term cost of sexual harassment

#60

Post by Mz »

owebmaster wrote: post #53
swiley wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if it's the same for everyone else but growing up I was told you're supposed to chase girls and that if you don't actively pursue them you'll end up alone. I think that's where this kind of thing comes from.

This. The western culture puts women in a pedestal and men trying to climb it. It is a society problem, not men's fault.

It is a societal problem and not the fault of any individual, but it can only be solved by many individuals taking a good hard look at themselves and choosing to handle it differently.
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