The long-term cost of sexual harassment • Hacker News Board

Re: The long-term cost of sexual harassment

#11

Post by omonra » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 12:58 AM UTC

To get this straight

She's a reporter and the guy is a VC. There is no business relationship between them. They were walking down the street with friends after having drinks, he grabbed her hand and she refused his advances. Everybody went home.

This is what the story is about? Is this some sort of parallel universe where people claim sexual assault over anything these days?

Ie I can see how he could have let go of her hand sooner but calling this sexual assault sort of does disservice to the people who actually experience sexual assault.

Re: The long-term cost of sexual harassment

#12

Post by jdp23 » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 1:01 AM UTC

QAPereo wrote: post #2

On one hand that sounds like pretty typically shitty behavior from someone who never imagines that there might be lasting consequences for anyone as a result. On the other hand that's a pretty low bar for a year of PTSD.

'dang, this has been the top comment on the post for the last 20 minutes. You and others at YC who want to make the enviroment on HN less hostile to women (and people with PTSD and other invisible disabilities, and to people of all varieties who have been sexually harassed) need to understand the impact things like this have.

[edited to clarify that this doesn't just make it a hostile environment to women]

Re: The long-term cost of sexual harassment

#13

Post by abalone » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 1:07 AM UTC

QAPereo wrote: post #2

On one hand that sounds like pretty typically shitty behavior from someone who never imagines that there might be lasting consequences for anyone as a result. On the other hand that's a pretty low bar for a year of PTSD.

You don't get to set the bar for her. That's something she was reserving for the most special people in her life, he took it from her, despite clear protestations, and it felt like he faced no real consequences for it. I can see how that could leave one with a pervasive feeling of disempowerment and victimization.

Re: The long-term cost of sexual harassment

#14

Post by Mz » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 1:08 AM UTC

FYI: The photo in the article is not clearly labeled, but it seems to be a photo of the incident taken at the time it happened. She is a little Asian woman. He towers over her.

My assumption is this noticeable size difference contributed to how strongly this incident impacted her.

Re: The long-term cost of sexual harassment

#15

Post by tptacek » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 1:10 AM UTC

QAPereo wrote: post #9

Mz wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember seeing some show about Microsoft and some other company. The other company felt threatened by the encounter, that Microsoft was implying or stating that they would ruin the company. Representatives from Microsoft remembered the meeting very differently. The show dramatized the different perceptions of the meeting based on the different descriptions given. Even though Microsoft swore they were not being thr…

What is "PTSD-like" if not PTSD? Flashbacks? Panic attacks? Vivid and repeated dreams? Depression? Loss of function? At what point is it not so much "like" PTSD, which is not infrequently ruinous or even fatal to the sufferer, and more like all of the other forms of misery or trauma that don't have a diagnosis? I object in the same way to people who feel sad claiming that they're "Depressed" and that's not harmless e…

Unless you're well-versed with the concept of PTSD, either through research you've done, or because you suffer from it yourself, or because you have a close friend who does, you should be careful talking about it dismissively like this. The popular conception of PTSD is a caricature. In reality, we've only recently begun seriously diagnosing and investigating it, and getting a sense of its prevalence.

In particular, the notion that a person reporting PTSD who hasn't been "observably" (in this case, through the details of a TechCrunch post) crippled by it isn't really suffering from it is both false and pretty offensive.

There really needs to be a guideline on HN about comments diagnosing (or dismissing the diagnosis of) mental illness in other commenters and the subjects of stories. These comments happen with some regularity, and they are never productive.

Re: The long-term cost of sexual harassment

#16

Post by gerdesj » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 1:13 AM UTC

"He put his arm around my shoulders and whispered “Can’t you pretend you’re single?” in my ear. I shrugged him off. "

At that point an approach was made and met with a clear response. That was when things should have stopped. That is how potential relationship escalation should work: an offer is made in some way and based on the response the proposer gets an idea on how to proceed (in this case - bugger off).

It is absolutely unacceptable that anyone should be assaulted.

Re: The long-term cost of sexual harassment

#17

Post by amatecha » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 1:16 AM UTC

gerdesj wrote: post #16

"He put his arm around my shoulders and whispered “Can’t you pretend you’re single?” in my ear. I shrugged him off. " At that point an approach was made and met with a clear response. That was when things should have stopped. That is how potential relationship escalation should work: an offer is made in some way and based on the response the proposer gets an idea on how to proceed (in this case - bugger off). It is a…

He shouldn't even have made any approach whatsoever. For that matter, he literally had just heard that she's married. What a piece of work.

Re: The long-term cost of sexual harassment

#18

Post by amatecha » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 1:21 AM UTC

Knowing how extremely adversely even minor harassment can affect someone in the workplace, I can't fathom how ANY company doesn't have an absolute-zero-tolerance policy for harassment, especially of a sexual nature. There's literally zero reasonable excuse for having to tolerate this kind of crap in a work situation, including "outside-of-work" events.

Re: The long-term cost of sexual harassment

#19

Post by threeseed » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 1:21 AM UTC

QAPereo wrote: post #9

Mz wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember seeing some show about Microsoft and some other company. The other company felt threatened by the encounter, that Microsoft was implying or stating that they would ruin the company. Representatives from Microsoft remembered the meeting very differently. The show dramatized the different perceptions of the meeting based on the different descriptions given. Even though Microsoft swore they were not being thr…

What is "PTSD-like" if not PTSD? Flashbacks? Panic attacks? Vivid and repeated dreams? Depression? Loss of function? At what point is it not so much "like" PTSD, which is not infrequently ruinous or even fatal to the sufferer, and more like all of the other forms of misery or trauma that don't have a diagnosis? I object in the same way to people who feel sad claiming that they're "Depressed" and that's not harmless e…

Mental illness is ultimately a personal issue that affects everyone very differently. You get a picture of this with how the same SSRI or other medication can have wildly different responses in people.

I wouldn't be so flippant and dismissive of terms like PTSD and Depression. For the person suffering them they are going to be very real and different than everyday sadness or misery. Even if for us outsiders they don't meet some documented guidelines of what they are.

Re: The long-term cost of sexual harassment

#20

Post by coldtea » Fri, Jul 21, 2017, 1:25 AM UTC

abalone wrote: post #13

QAPereo wrote: post #2

On one hand that sounds like pretty typically shitty behavior from someone who never imagines that there might be lasting consequences for anyone as a result. On the other hand that's a pretty low bar for a year of PTSD.

You don't get to set the bar for her. That's something she was reserving for the most special people in her life, he took it from her, despite clear protestations, and it felt like he faced no real consequences for it. I can see how that could leave one with a pervasive feeling of disempowerment and victimization.

>You don't get to set the bar for her.

Words have meanings, just because someone interprets them in their own way, doesn't mean they can claim X when it's not considered warranted.

So regardless of this particular case, we can, and do, society collectively does set the bar for what can be considered X or Y -- and someone can argue based on that.

(That said, grabbing her hand and not letting go despite attempts to free it, and groping her body, clearly fits the bill for sexual harassment and a stressful situation).