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US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

reuters.com

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Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#491

Post by deer6 »

miroljub wrote: post #116
WarmWash wrote: post #106

If Chinese LLMs are successfully making people in the west defend China, then I think we have all the evidence we need to explain why they are giving away their models. The next step of course will be to get people using that ungodly cheap AI on Chinese servers. Which will also be defended because "I would never trust an American Lab".

As a European, I trust Chinese AI providers more than American. Cloud act did it for me.

I spoke with a high up fella in a uk firm - same thing - trusting china more. Couldn’t believe it when he said.

Americans you wanted isolation - you’re gonna get it eventually!

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#492

Post by vincnetas »

steelframe wrote: post #456
hodgehog11 wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of price-to-productivity, nothing will beat DeepSeek right now. For what you have described, all of the existing frontier models will perform well (probably about the same even). If you expanded the list to very hard research tasks, Fable was so far ahead of the others that it doesn't even deserve debate. If you are a researcher doing something involving scientific computation or mathematics that wasn't reje…

Makes me wonder what the value of a PhD is.

I would say to push frontier of human knowledge forwards. Its not a high school anymore where you learn to learn. PhD is already a place where you should deliver value. (By "value" i don't mean commercial product)

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#493

Post by nixon_why69 »

mystraline wrote: post #271
chrononaut wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I am not familiar with Alipay, at least in the use case you're referring to; How do you exactly pay for 2 servers using Alipay from a CVS?

I can load US dollars I hand over to the CVS attendant and load it on my AliPay (Alibaba account). I can then pay my Alibaba server bills with Alipay.

Why not just go directly from a credit card to alipay? Does that not work when physically outside of China?

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#494

Post by imadierich »

prmoustache wrote: post #490
godelski wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As an Australian, I'm not sure that I care about the safety of my data when it comes to LLMs. US companies already stole scores of data I'm not sure I understand this. I'm not defending the US, but isn't your data being in more hands worse? Also, isn't Australia in a more contentious situation with China? Them being more allied with the US and all? Not to mention the whole nuclear sub issue. Having data stolen is s…

USA is an adversarial country to everyone in 2026.

[dead]

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#495

Post by overfeed »

apatheticonion wrote: post #481
hodgehog11 wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely agree with this. As Louis Rossmann recently pointed out, it's the difference between a correct answer and a wrong answer; the correct answer is worth a good amount, while the wrong answer is worth nothing. Under this metric, for harder tasks, the most intelligent model is best per dollar.

That's why experience + cost effective model is IMO the best combination. Experience allows you to design the skeleton where the implementation details are often inconsequential. There are relatively few scenarios where an LLM would need more guidance to render an outcome, but even dumb local models can do that. Building a simple UI component vs an efficient multi-threaded bidirectional socket implementation (both ex…

> Experience allows you to design the skeleton where the implementation details are often inconsequential.

Expanding on this thought a little more: it is possible to set up scaffolding that make incorrect implementations inconsequential. If the LLM can detect when the implementation is wrong, it can retry with the errors feeding back into the loop. This is shored up by up-front investments in tests, API definitions, strong types, linting rules, etc. the various cheap, fast Flash models do not need to 1-shot solutions if capable of autonomous reiteration.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#496

Post by ascorbic »

guywithahat wrote: post #209
Vasbarlog wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not China that is threatening to annex Greenland though.

There's nothing wrong with the US buying greenland, which has been done for territories around the world? The US has a long history of protecting individual freedoms, China does not. There's an irony that you're aware of the misgivings of the US because we have free speech protections. You're probably less aware of the misgivings of the EU because they regularly arrest citizens for speech, and no awareness of the iss…

You're kinda missing the important bit there: buying Greenland under threat of invasion

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#498

Post by [deleted] »

_carbyau_ wrote: post #355
matheusmoreira wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just my general impression. They banned China from the ISS, China made their own space station. China's making their own x86 chips, their own GPUs. As a fellow wheel reinventer, I admire their audacity. It's the sort of thing that makes me wish my country was like China.

> makes me wish my country was like China I admire their governance ability to have long term plans. The sheer scale of their production ambitions in so many fields and their energy build out is insane. The fact those plans also have subclauses ensuring the party elite are made even more wealthy and powerful is less alluring.

[deleted]

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#499

Post by Humphrey »

apatheticonion wrote: post #402
godelski wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As an Australian, I'm not sure that I care about the safety of my data when it comes to LLMs. US companies already stole scores of data I'm not sure I understand this. I'm not defending the US, but isn't your data being in more hands worse? Also, isn't Australia in a more contentious situation with China? Them being more allied with the US and all? Not to mention the whole nuclear sub issue. Having data stolen is s…

If I spoke freely about how I feel about the US right now and the direct personal impact of policies implemented by the recent administration, I'd be denied entry into the country to visit friends later this year. It is inconsequential if the US or China have my data, both will misuse it and I am powerless to protect myself from that fact. Not using LLMs presents a bigger threat to my career than protecting my data.

Correct - As an Australian I feel free to say anything. But as an Australian who might like to travel again to the USA at some point in the future, I do not feel I have freedom to share openly online.

Whereas, China does not ask for my social network logins, or for me to be pre-approved to travel there. So that is unlikely to be affected.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#500

Post by sph »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #380
janalsncm wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A free market can still have government regulation and distortion. https://www.dictionary.com/browse/free-market?q=free+market > an economic system in which prices and wages are determined by unrestricted competition between businesses, without government regulation or fear of monopolies. By definition, free markets do not have government regulation. If you have an alternative definition of “free market” please fee…

I think you're misinterpreting the intent of what you quoted. I also think the phrasing of that definition is quite sloppy, being prone to exactly the sort of misunderstanding we see here. For a market to be stable, fair, and free of monopolies government intervention is required. I don't think that fact is at all controversial. So already the definition you've quoted there has, if read literally, set up a scenario t…

> For a market to be stable, fair, and free of monopolies government intervention is required. I don't think that fact is at all controversial.

It is. Government intervention is what creates monopolies, because economic value stops being the ultimate metric that decides which enterprise is profitable over another; because it favours one entity over another, large corporations are not valued on their financials alone, but on the strength of their political connections - which in turn enables lobbying as an effective tool.

The entire premise of free markets is that the market is the ultimate judge of value. If you add the government and its heavy hand on the scale to the mix, it is no longer a free market. It’s pretty simple.

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